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Post by aquaduct on Aug 20, 2014 21:10:36 GMT -5
Wrong. She's not dead. She shouldn't have snuck out and gone partying. And he's not being charged with anything. Legitimate use of a legal firearm. Legal, perhaps. But so f##king stupid and indefensible it ought to be illegal. It's entirely defensible. That's why there are no charges.
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 20, 2014 21:17:49 GMT -5
If someone or multiple someones are in my home with me and my family I'm not sacrificing the biggest tactical advantage I have by waiting until they're on top of me or can clearly identify me as a target. Shoot first, live to ask questions later. The fact that he shot her in the abdomen and only immobilized her instead of killing her showed pretty remarkable training and restraint. No. It showed he didn't use enough time or judgement to properly identify his target. There are probably considerably more careless and moronic shootings than proper and successful self defense shootings. Aside from the fact that you can't prove that, this was a successful self defense shooting. He used enough time and judgment to properly identify and immobilize his target and stop the break in. Unfortunately he had no idea that his daughter was not home and asleep. If it had been anyone else he would be a hero for saving his family.
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Post by coachdoc on Aug 20, 2014 21:18:12 GMT -5
I'm talking morally, not legally. There is a major difference between what is legal and what is right. Shooting a family member by miscalculation or carelessness is wrong.
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 20, 2014 21:25:31 GMT -5
I'm talking morally, not legally. There is a major difference between what is legal and what is right. Shooting a family member by miscalculation or carelessness is wrong. It's a tragedy and I'm sure it's been difficult for the family. But there's nothing morally wrong with it.
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Post by Village Idiot on Aug 20, 2014 21:38:26 GMT -5
Having raised two girls and having family with same-aged kids living nearby, we've had lots of kids stay in our house over the years. Our own kids, slumber party kids, nieces and nephews, and when I look back over the past 25 years I recall only shooting at a few of them. But each time they were doing something stupid that deserved it, like going into the house from the tent outside to use the bathroom, or going into the kitchen at three in the morning to get a glass of water.
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Post by AlanC on Aug 20, 2014 21:42:07 GMT -5
On second thought.... I don't know squat.....carry on.
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Post by billhammond on Aug 20, 2014 21:45:11 GMT -5
This one was "successful" too, in stopping the intruder.
ROCHESTER, Minn. (KMSP) - A Rochester, Minn. pastor is charged with a felony for shooting and wounding his granddaughter after mistaking her for an intruder last month. Stanley Wilkinson, 61, is charged with intentional discharge of a firearm that endangered safety. A court appearance is scheduled Feb. 25. According to the charges, Wilkinson grabbed his pistol and told his wife to call police after hearing a noise outside his house on the evening of Dec. 10. He said he turned the lights on and off to signal that someone was home, and didn't fire a shot until he saw someone trying to open the patio door.
Wilkinson fired two shots, at which point he heard his 16-year-old granddaughter yell, "Poppa!" The victim, identified by friends as Paige Wilkinson, spent days in critical condition at St. Mary's hospital. According to the charges, Wilkinson believed his granddaughter was sleeping upstairs, but the 911 transcripts revealed that she had gone out onto the patio to smoke.
The teen had been living with her grandparents. She told police she left the house without her grandparents knowing. Wilkinson told police he had been on edge due to a recent break-in nearby. Authorities said he was distraught following the shooting.
While some might argue that Wilkinson has been through enough agony without the charge, Olmsted County Attorney Mark Ostrem says the revived gun debate played no part in the decision to prosecute. Instead, he says it's a case of a legal gun owner who admitted pulling the trigger without knowing his target.
"He says he didn't have his glasses on. He says he didn't know who was there. It could have been law enforcement back there," explained Ostrem. "It could have been anybody back there, and he intentionally discharged his firearm." According to the criminal complaint, Wilkinson admitted that he did not say or yell anything before firing his 9mm handgun, saying he "'just freaked' and fired his gun twice." Wilkinson told police he heard footsteps in the snow and could see someone outside; however, Ostrem said he made no effort to find out who it was before opening fire.
Ostrem likens the case to hunters who shoot at noises and end up striking other hunters.
Wilkinson is pastor at the Seventh-Day Adventist Church in Rochester. Calls left for him were not immediately returned.
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 20, 2014 21:45:38 GMT -5
Having raised two girls and having family with same-aged kids living nearby, we've had lots of kids stay in our house over the years. Our own kids, slumber party kids, nieces and nephews, and when I look back over the past 25 years I recall only shooting at a few of them. But each time they were doing something stupid that deserved it, like going into the house from the tent outside to use the bathroom, or going into the kitchen at three in the morning to get a glass of water. I was blessed with kids who weren't stupid by sneaking out to party. They were never in danger of being shot.
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Post by John B on Aug 20, 2014 21:52:39 GMT -5
Having raised two girls and having family with same-aged kids living nearby, we've had lots of kids stay in our house over the years. Our own kids, slumber party kids, nieces and nephews, and when I look back over the past 25 years I recall only shooting at a few of them. But each time they were doing something stupid that deserved it, like going into the house from the tent outside to use the bathroom, or going into the kitchen at three in the morning to get a glass of water. I was blessed with kids who weren't stupid by sneaking out to party. They were never in danger of being shot. That you know of.
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 20, 2014 21:54:47 GMT -5
This one was "successful" too, in stopping the intruder. ROCHESTER, Minn. (KMSP) - A Rochester, Minn. pastor is charged with a felony for shooting and wounding his granddaughter after mistaking her for an intruder last month. Stanley Wilkinson, 61, is charged with intentional discharge of a firearm that endangered safety. A court appearance is scheduled Feb. 25. According to the charges, Wilkinson grabbed his pistol and told his wife to call police after hearing a noise outside his house on the evening of Dec. 10. He said he turned the lights on and off to signal that someone was home, and didn't fire a shot until he saw someone trying to open the patio door. Wilkinson fired two shots, at which point he heard his 16-year-old granddaughter yell, "Poppa!" The victim, identified by friends as Paige Wilkinson, spent days in critical condition at St. Mary's hospital. According to the charges, Wilkinson believed his granddaughter was sleeping upstairs, but the 911 transcripts revealed that she had gone out onto the patio to smoke. The teen had been living with her grandparents. She told police she left the house without her grandparents knowing. Wilkinson told police he had been on edge due to a recent break-in nearby. Authorities said he was distraught following the shooting. While some might argue that Wilkinson has been through enough agony without the charge, Olmsted County Attorney Mark Ostrem says the revived gun debate played no part in the decision to prosecute. Instead, he says it's a case of a legal gun owner who admitted pulling the trigger without knowing his target. "He says he didn't have his glasses on. He says he didn't know who was there. It could have been law enforcement back there," explained Ostrem. "It could have been anybody back there, and he intentionally discharged his firearm." According to the criminal complaint, Wilkinson admitted that he did not say or yell anything before firing his 9mm handgun, saying he "'just freaked' and fired his gun twice." Wilkinson told police he heard footsteps in the snow and could see someone outside; however, Ostrem said he made no effort to find out who it was before opening fire. Ostrem likens the case to hunters who shoot at noises and end up striking other hunters. Wilkinson is pastor at the Seventh-Day Adventist Church in Rochester. Calls left for him were not immediately returned. We'll talk again if he ends up being convicted. The comparison to a deer hunter is plainly idiotic.
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 20, 2014 21:56:45 GMT -5
I was blessed with kids who weren't stupid by sneaking out to party. They were never in danger of being shot. That you know of. I know my kids really well. There was never any need to sneak out to party so we always knew where they were.
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Post by billhammond on Aug 20, 2014 21:59:39 GMT -5
This one was "successful" too, in stopping the intruder. ROCHESTER, Minn. (KMSP) - A Rochester, Minn. pastor is charged with a felony for shooting and wounding his granddaughter after mistaking her for an intruder last month. Stanley Wilkinson, 61, is charged with intentional discharge of a firearm that endangered safety. A court appearance is scheduled Feb. 25. According to the charges, Wilkinson grabbed his pistol and told his wife to call police after hearing a noise outside his house on the evening of Dec. 10. He said he turned the lights on and off to signal that someone was home, and didn't fire a shot until he saw someone trying to open the patio door. Wilkinson fired two shots, at which point he heard his 16-year-old granddaughter yell, "Poppa!" The victim, identified by friends as Paige Wilkinson, spent days in critical condition at St. Mary's hospital. According to the charges, Wilkinson believed his granddaughter was sleeping upstairs, but the 911 transcripts revealed that she had gone out onto the patio to smoke. The teen had been living with her grandparents. She told police she left the house without her grandparents knowing. Wilkinson told police he had been on edge due to a recent break-in nearby. Authorities said he was distraught following the shooting. While some might argue that Wilkinson has been through enough agony without the charge, Olmsted County Attorney Mark Ostrem says the revived gun debate played no part in the decision to prosecute. Instead, he says it's a case of a legal gun owner who admitted pulling the trigger without knowing his target. "He says he didn't have his glasses on. He says he didn't know who was there. It could have been law enforcement back there," explained Ostrem. "It could have been anybody back there, and he intentionally discharged his firearm." According to the criminal complaint, Wilkinson admitted that he did not say or yell anything before firing his 9mm handgun, saying he "'just freaked' and fired his gun twice." Wilkinson told police he heard footsteps in the snow and could see someone outside; however, Ostrem said he made no effort to find out who it was before opening fire. Ostrem likens the case to hunters who shoot at noises and end up striking other hunters. Wilkinson is pastor at the Seventh-Day Adventist Church in Rochester. Calls left for him were not immediately returned. We'll talk again if he ends up being convicted. The comparison to a deer hunter is plainly idiotic. Oh, the case has been adjudicated. He pleaded guilty, and here is how it all washed out: Stanley Wilkinson, pastor at Rochester's Seventh-Day Adventist Church, will not have to serve time behind bars for shooting and almost killing his 16-year-old granddaughter, Paige, last December. Instead, Wilkinson, 61, was sentenced to 100 hours of community service after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor charge of intentional discharge of a firearm that endangers safety. Around 11:30 p.m. on December 10, Paige was trying to sneak back into her grandparents' house when her grandfather mistook her for an intruder and fired two shots at her. The second one hit her in the upper torso, nearly killing her. Wilkinson later told police he was more paranoid than usual because of a recent break-in in the area. In court Monday, Wilkinson described his behavior as "stupid." According to the Rochester Post Bulletin, Paige continues to live with Wilkinson and his wife. Jacob Allen, Wilkinson's attorney, told the Post Bulletin he expects Wilkinson to serve his sentence by giving talks about gun safety. Allen also released a statement discussing Wilkinson's reaction to his sentence. Wilkinson "is glad to finally be able to move forward. He's pleased that Judge Birnbaum agreed not to sentence the case as a felony, keeping in mind that this was a case of mistaken identity and under circumstances where he felt a need to defend himself, his family, and his home," Allen wrote.
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 20, 2014 22:06:11 GMT -5
We'll talk again if he ends up being convicted. The comparison to a deer hunter is plainly idiotic. Oh, the case has been adjudicated. He pleaded guilty, and here is how it all washed out: Stanley Wilkinson, pastor at Rochester's Seventh-Day Adventist Church, will not have to serve time behind bars for shooting and almost killing his 16-year-old granddaughter, Paige, last December. Instead, Wilkinson, 61, was sentenced to 100 hours of community service after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor charge of intentional discharge of a firearm that endangers safety. Around 11:30 p.m. on December 10, Paige was trying to sneak back into her grandparents' house when her grandfather mistook her for an intruder and fired two shots at her. The second one hit her in the upper torso, nearly killing her. Wilkinson later told police he was more paranoid than usual because of a recent break-in in the area. In court Monday, Wilkinson described his behavior as "stupid." According to the Rochester Post Bulletin, Paige continues to live with Wilkinson and his wife. Jacob Allen, Wilkinson's attorney, told the Post Bulletin he expects Wilkinson to serve his sentence by giving talks about gun safety. Allen also released a statement discussing Wilkinson's reaction to his sentence. Wilkinson "is glad to finally be able to move forward. He's pleased that Judge Birnbaum agreed not to sentence the case as a felony, keeping in mind that this was a case of mistaken identity and under circumstances where he felt a need to defend himself, his family, and his home," Allen wrote. Wow. They really threw the book at him. No felony and a whole 100 hours of talking gun safety. You're right. What was I thinking?
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 21, 2014 8:03:32 GMT -5
"According to the charges, Wilkinson believed his granddaughter was sleeping upstairs, but the 911 transcripts revealed that she had gone out onto the patio to smoke. "
Smoking related shooting is approved by the government.
(I wouldn't have said that had she been killed).
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Aug 21, 2014 9:07:43 GMT -5
Peter, perhaps your parenting was as perfect as you seem to believe and resulted in kids that are as perfect as you believe, but the odds are strongly against it. All of us try to raise our kids well. Yet, sadly, we and they make mistakes.
You are, of course, free to defend these shootings, just as I am free to call them stupid and senseless.
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Post by kenlarsson on Aug 21, 2014 9:28:01 GMT -5
Stand your ground....................
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Post by Lonnie on Aug 21, 2014 10:13:44 GMT -5
I know my kids really well. There was never any need to sneak out to party so we always knew where they were. They probably never snuck out because they knew you'd shoot them, Dad.
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 21, 2014 11:28:55 GMT -5
I was blessed with kids who weren't stupid by sneaking out to party. They were never in danger of being shot. That you know of. Peter, perhaps your parenting was as perfect as you seem to believe and resulted in kids that are as perfect as you believe, but the odds are strongly against it. All of us try to raise our kids well. Yet, sadly, we and they make mistakes. I know my kids really well. There was never any need to sneak out to party so we always knew where they were. They probably never snuck out because they knew you'd shoot them, Dad. Nobody's parenting skills are at issue here. That's just typical ad hominem douche baggery to try to mock me and change the subject. The facts are pretty straight forward. A sheriff's deputy shot someone breaking into his home at night. Turned out it was his daughter who was someplace she shouldn't have been. Tough way to learn that lesson but there it is. Y'all are more than welcome to whatever self-satisfied sanctimonious judgments you want to make, but he didn't do anything wrong, illegitimate, or illegal.
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 21, 2014 11:33:18 GMT -5
I know my kids really well. There was never any need to sneak out to party so we always knew where they were. They probably never snuck out because they knew you'd shoot them, Dad. I've never actually owned a gun. Like I said before, I was blessed with kids who never needed to sneak out.
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Post by Russell Letson on Aug 21, 2014 13:46:54 GMT -5
In both cases, the shooter fired without being certain of the nature and identity of his target. The excuse is "I was protecting my home and family," and in the case of the grandpa, he was "more paranoid than usual."* This is precisely why self-defense laws need to apply not only the "reasonable person" and "proportional force" tests but refuse to over-emphasize the sincerity or subjective fear of the defender. Firing at an undefined target, from a distance, in the dark, without warning strikes me as irresponsible. Defending such an act by invoking some absolutist version of the castle doctrine means that petty trespass (or teenage curfew-breaking) become capital offenses, with any old gun-owner (which now means anybody who has not actually been found crazy or criminal) empowered to carry out execution, based on his own subjective evaluation of a situation, no matter how deluded or ignorant or foolish.
* Not necessarily his own language, and in any case both emotive and imprecise--unless he's actually mentally ill, he was "more fearful or anxious than usual." Not that there's anything particularly exculpatory about that.
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