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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 8:17:50 GMT -5
Post by millring on Nov 21, 2014 8:17:50 GMT -5
Why are the debt and the money bubble not a looming crisis?
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 8:31:33 GMT -5
Post by aquaduct on Nov 21, 2014 8:31:33 GMT -5
Why are the debt and the money bubble not a looming crisis? Because economic collapse is a sure way to fight climate change. Just depends on your priorities.
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 8:45:54 GMT -5
Post by brucemacneill on Nov 21, 2014 8:45:54 GMT -5
Why are the debt and the money bubble not a looming crisis? Because economic collapse is a sure way to fight climate change. Just depends on your priorities. Based upon the experience of the late '70s, inflation will make it easy to pay the debt at about 10cents on the dollar. The debt was taken in current dollars but in 5 or 10 years we can pay it back in 2025 dollars which will be worth about 10cents. It's the part Keynes left out.
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 8:49:48 GMT -5
Post by aquaduct on Nov 21, 2014 8:49:48 GMT -5
Because economic collapse is a sure way to fight climate change. Just depends on your priorities. Based upon the experience of the late '70s, inflation will make it easy to pay the debt at about 10cents on the dollar. The debt was taken in current dollars but in 5 or 10 years we can pay it back in 2025 dollars which will be worth about 10cents. It's the part Keynes left out. Crisis? What crisis? See, it's all good.
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 8:56:34 GMT -5
Post by mnhermit on Nov 21, 2014 8:56:34 GMT -5
because if we worry about it, it just gets worse.
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 9:00:18 GMT -5
Post by aquaduct on Nov 21, 2014 9:00:18 GMT -5
And besides, bankers are making money hand over fist and the stock market is setting new records every day.
What's the problem?
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 9:03:24 GMT -5
Post by fauxmaha on Nov 21, 2014 9:03:24 GMT -5
We love our shiny new stuff, and woe betide those who tell us we can't have it.
When I bought my 25 yo bike this year, I found a forum populated by other old bike owners. Lots of good maintenance and repair knowledge to be found there.
I also found a "sister" forum where aficionados of the newer models reside. It was alarmingly eye-opening. There are frequent posts along the lines of "I have next to no money, I scrape by month to month, my credit score is lower than my IQ, and it looks like I'm soon to be laid off. Anyway, the dealer wants $24,960 for the new FXFU 1000 model, and the best financing I can find is 96 months at 19.87%. Where can I find a lower rate?"
Which is invariably met with any number of helpful suggestions for where to find lower interest rates or longer loan terms. And occasionally is met with a post along the lines of "Perhaps the brand new FXFU 1000 at $24k+ is out of reach. Maybe a 1987 Yamaha off of Craigslist for $500 is a better move for you." And then THAT contribution is met with abundant derision along the lines of "If you really understood, you'd realize that having the new FXUP 1000 is not optional" or occasionally "With the FXFU 1000 he'll get a warranty, so its actually less expensive" or similar rot.
The Motor Company is running ads advising us to "buy your freedom for no money down".
Heh.
Apparently, for many, the definition of "can you afford it?" is "can you afford to make the payments?" I know lots of guys who live that way...guys who make decent to very good money (call it something like $100k per year around here) who still manage to stay poor by living month to month. Between enormous mortgages (often more than one), two or three car payments, lots of credit cards, etc, etc, etc they just scrape by. Deep down they know that the way they are living is foolish to the point of being unsustainable, but dammit the allure of all that new, shiny stuff is just irresistible.
So why should we expect the democratically elected government of such a society be any different?
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 9:09:03 GMT -5
Post by aquaduct on Nov 21, 2014 9:09:03 GMT -5
Apparently, for many, the definition of "can you afford it?" is "can you afford to make the payments?". That's really the only way to sell big ticket things like cars or houses these days. The ad is for the payment. The price is in the fine print.
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 9:39:06 GMT -5
Post by Doug on Nov 21, 2014 9:39:06 GMT -5
Inflation is a government tax on the poor.
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 9:54:07 GMT -5
Post by Marshall on Nov 21, 2014 9:54:07 GMT -5
. . . , So why should we expect the democratically elected government of such a society be any different? Sad but true. PS - What'd you pay for that bad boy? I got my 1996 Honda Magna in 2006 (with 2600 miles on it) for $3450. Of course I put new tires on it and within a year had the carbs cleaned to the tune of $400. A few assorted other cosmetic things. But I couldn't really swallow the thought of paying $17-$25k for a new ride. The new Indian Chief looks very nice. But I'm not popping for even $11k
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 10:14:54 GMT -5
Post by fauxmaha on Nov 21, 2014 10:14:54 GMT -5
$3449, of course! $5k, actually. And it cost me another $500 or so to get it crated and sent from the east coast. Haven't done anything to it yet, other than change the fluids. The tires could probably stand changing over the winter, but for the moment, they are fine. Looked for a long time to find one of those. That's the model I wished I could afford when I got out of college, but as a young man with a growing family, that wasn't happening. The main thing I was looking for was originality. So many of those have been butchered up with aftermarket cams, exhaust, carbs, etc. Didn't want to have to deal with any of that...and the potential of sub-standard parts installed by some unknown, sub-standard mechanic from 20 years ago. The only thing non-stock on mine is that somewhere along the line, someone put some bags on it which required relocating the rear signals. Looks like we'll see 50 degrees tomorrow. I think I'll take it out for a spin.
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 10:26:05 GMT -5
Post by billhammond on Nov 21, 2014 10:26:05 GMT -5
What year and model is your bike, Jeff?
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 10:30:16 GMT -5
Post by aquaduct on Nov 21, 2014 10:30:16 GMT -5
We miss our Electraglide and have had several conversations about it recently. It's currently the only thing we'd consider going into debt to acquire again.
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 10:39:24 GMT -5
Post by fauxmaha on Nov 21, 2014 10:39:24 GMT -5
What year and model is your bike, Jeff? 1990 HD FXRS.
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 10:41:12 GMT -5
Post by fauxmaha on Nov 21, 2014 10:41:12 GMT -5
We miss our Electraglide and have had several conversations about it recently. It's currently the only thing we'd consider going into debt to acquire again. The market for those seems pretty soft right now, just in general and on a time of year basis. There are a lot of them out there for fairly short money.
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 10:42:23 GMT -5
Post by Russell Letson on Nov 21, 2014 10:42:23 GMT -5
Not really about debt, but bikes--does a new two-wheeler really cost more than a two-year-old Outback?
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 10:46:35 GMT -5
Post by fauxmaha on Nov 21, 2014 10:46:35 GMT -5
Not really about debt, but bikes--does a new two-wheeler really cost more than a two-year-old Outback? IMHO, the prices on the new HD's tends toward the insane. But to answer your question, yes. For less stratospheric money, the current model equivalent to what I have goes for around $15k.
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 10:51:16 GMT -5
Post by Russell Letson on Nov 21, 2014 10:51:16 GMT -5
Oy. But it makes me feel better about what we pay for four wheels (all of which are connected to the drive train). With heated seats.
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 10:55:31 GMT -5
Post by fauxmaha on Nov 21, 2014 10:55:31 GMT -5
But Russell, don't you understand that you can have your freedom for just 72 easy payments (and a balloon at the end)?
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Debt
Nov 21, 2014 10:59:16 GMT -5
Post by Russell Letson on Nov 21, 2014 10:59:16 GMT -5
Why would I want a balloon in my end? They did something like that during my colonoscopy and it was kinda uncomfortable. Only required one payment, though.
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