|
Post by Chesapeake on Dec 17, 2014 20:02:21 GMT -5
I don't think it's the sort of thing you can just take back. The moat is down and international agreements are signed. Mark Rubio doesn't run the universe. He does wield the power of a U.S. senator, which is substantial, especially if he can get some other senators to go along with him - and that's a given. He told CNN today he would block whoever is nominated as ambassador, and hold up funding for an embassy. This will get messy. It will be interesting to see how it will affect the race for the GOP nomination too. Could be a defining moment for Jeb Bush.
|
|
|
Post by aquaduct on Dec 17, 2014 20:09:11 GMT -5
David, I think that Congress is going to look like the biggest bunch of morons on the planet if they don't go along. I doubt that Obama has gone this far without being fairly sure that it will happen. This may be first steps, but the entire planet thinks they are good ones. My god man, Obama actually thanked Canada for our help. And the sky isn't falling. Don't know about the rest of the world but we just had an election that determined that much of the country believes the current Congress of Obama sycophants are the the biggest bunch of morons on the planet. And at least half the country thinks Obama is an incompetent and ineffectual idiot. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets pummeled for this.
|
|
|
Post by sekhmet on Dec 17, 2014 20:11:38 GMT -5
Actually aqua, I don't imagine that many people think that badly of Obama. It was only two years ago that he won his second substantial mandate. They might bitch and complain and Congress will be the usual bitch to deal with but fact is the country was a fucking mess in 2008 and it's in much much better shape now. And it isn't in better shape because of the Republicans.
|
|
|
Post by fauxmaha on Dec 17, 2014 20:11:56 GMT -5
Sen. Bob Menendez from NJ is also voicing loud opposition.
As political issues go, this one is pretty far down on the list. Most people won't care one way or another. Certain parts of Obama's base will be cheered. Cuban exiles in Florida will be furious.
At most, this might tip Florida to the GOP in 2016, thanks to the energy of the Cuban community there. Maybe. Beyond that, its pretty much a non-factor.
On the substance of the issue, I think it was a dumb idea when Kennedy did it and its stayed dumb ever since. Not that I think Cuba is a good country. I think their government is horrible and evil and needs to go away. I just think staying engaged with them over the last 50 or so years would have done more to undermine them than anything we actually did.
|
|
|
Post by sekhmet on Dec 17, 2014 20:13:35 GMT -5
Marshall it's Simon Bolivar. He's a Cuban hero. Statues of the man everywhere - like Che.
|
|
Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,853
Member is Online
|
Post by Dub on Dec 17, 2014 20:32:41 GMT -5
David, I think that Congress is going to look like the biggest bunch of morons on the planet ... Why are you using the future tense? The US stance toward Cuba has been an embarrassment since the revolution. Everyone knew that Cuba (Batista) was controlled by organized crime and the big plantation owners. Many Americans actually volunteered to fight with Castro; not because of their political bent but because Castro's cause was a righteous one. It surprised a lot of people (Castro not the least) when the US Government turned it's back on Cuba leaving the Castro Government nowhere to turn but the USSR. I realize the idea of a Cuba Jam was in jest but it would be a cool place to have one.
|
|
|
Post by sekhmet on Dec 17, 2014 20:54:55 GMT -5
It certainly would be a cool place to have a Jam. Would we call it Red Jam?
|
|
|
Post by sekhmet on Dec 17, 2014 21:01:58 GMT -5
Fauxmaha, there is no doubt that the government of CUba is horrible. One wonders, given Castro's initial agenda, what the thing might have turned into without the USA being so utterly opposed to it. I can see that the corporate interest was in peril - after all the Duponts had to give up their mansion Xanadu and the entire peninsula of Varadero (where Cubans were not allowed to go) AND the mafia had to get out of Havana and god knows how many other huge corps had to give up holdings in 1959. I can see that the US was less than thrilled about all that. But the people of Cuba are industrious, and even after Russia dumped them like a hot potato they have managed to scrape together a reasonably nice standard of living compared to the days of Batista when they were little more than serfs and peasants for the most part. You can't treat people like crap and expect to govern forever. They eventually get out the pitchforks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 21:08:45 GMT -5
"You can't treat people like crap and expect to govern forever. They eventually get out the pitchforks."
Laissez-faire free market capitalists sometimes struggle to appreciate that fact.
Government usually has a reasonable record of reining in excesses and abuses to stop it all going belly up.
Less so of late.
|
|
|
Post by Russell Letson on Dec 17, 2014 23:47:10 GMT -5
I thought it was Marco Polo. I don't care how nice his shirts are, they're still stuffed. (There's a rather over-elaborate joke trapped in there, wishing it were a simple pun.)
|
|
|
Post by godotwaits on Dec 18, 2014 5:07:15 GMT -5
I dare say the iconic Cuban cigar will show up at a lot more weddings and birth announcements.
|
|
|
Post by Doug on Dec 18, 2014 7:05:11 GMT -5
We screwed up in '59. But it made NV happy, built Vegas.
I think the odds of it getting through congress are slim. I think it's a Nixon in China moment, only something a Republican can do.
I think it would be silly to go with Jeb but he would be a GOP pres that would pull it off, I don't know about the other candidates. I would hope that we have enough sense to not go with either a Bush or a Clinton.
|
|
|
Post by Cosmic Wonder on Dec 18, 2014 8:53:21 GMT -5
I realize the idea of a Cuba Jam was in jest but it would be a cool place to have one. No jest at all. I'm serious. Im thinking in two or three years, this will all be settled, and with most of us retired, we could set up IJam in a beautiful subtropical paradise. Of course, some will miss the Hobo House and the maid rites. Mike
|
|
|
Post by dradtke on Dec 18, 2014 9:29:47 GMT -5
David, I think that Congress is going to look like the biggest bunch of morons on the planet if they don't go along. And this would be different how?
|
|
|
Post by millring on Dec 19, 2014 14:12:32 GMT -5
Well, my facebook page (a reliable news source if ever was) has two opinions expressed from the left:
1. Republicans are "screaming" about this opening to Cuba because though the Cuban exiles used to be Republican, they have, of late, been trending Democrat (a 20% shift). And this move to normalize relation with Cuba will make the Democrats heroes who freed Cuba from the Castro regime.
2. We've been mad at Cuba because they give their citizens free health care.
So, to synthesize the two concepts, the Democrats will get credit for freeing a society from a government that treats its citizens better than we treat our own.
It's all just in how you look at it. And now we know that Communism never hurt anyone.
|
|
|
Post by fauxmaha on Dec 19, 2014 14:31:41 GMT -5
Communism is awesome! You even get to pick which movies we can see!
|
|
|
Post by RickW on Dec 19, 2014 15:01:31 GMT -5
Florida seems to be split. Older Cubans are angry. Young ones think it's a good idea. I don't think this is going to be a defining moment for anyone. It's like gay marriage and pot. Rubio and bush are playing to the older Cubans, who supported them in the past. If they see it's a losing proposition, they'll back off. And now, or in a little while, it's going to happen.
|
|
|
Post by epaul on Dec 19, 2014 17:46:45 GMT -5
What we were doing wasn't working. Good job, Obama.
|
|
|
Post by millring on Dec 21, 2014 20:13:09 GMT -5
Anyone watch 60 Minutes tonight?
|
|
|
Post by Cosmic Wonder on Dec 21, 2014 21:02:49 GMT -5
Are you kidding? Seattle is playing AZ.
Mike
|
|