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Post by AlanC on Jul 29, 2015 8:41:54 GMT -5
He is well and truly screwed and deservedly so. The only way I can see some of these animal-tied-to-a-tree "hunting trips" being even a little ethical is if the animal is old and the fee charged to the dipshit Nimrod is exorbitant enough to insure the survival of many other animals.
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Post by dradtke on Jul 29, 2015 9:04:32 GMT -5
I read Marshall's first post just as I was leaving work yesterday. Then in the car it was the first news story on the radio. Yup, the guy's screwed.
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Post by Marshall on Jul 29, 2015 9:17:28 GMT -5
No one wants a dentist to shoot a lion until it's in their own back yard. No one wants a lion to eat a dentist until he is in their own backyard. <back molar>
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Post by theevan on Jul 29, 2015 9:43:39 GMT -5
I had a customer back in the day that did big game hunting in Africa and elsewhere. He had a huge addition to his house to house the stuffed beasts & winged things. Big stuff. In the whole. Added yet another bigger room with a tall roll up garage door to fit a whole freaking African elephant as well as other large things.
Guy was a dick.
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Post by majorminor on Jul 29, 2015 9:52:52 GMT -5
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,869
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Post by Dub on Jul 29, 2015 10:22:40 GMT -5
Growing up Iowa I naturally thought guns and hunting were fun. When we went to Scout camp or Y camp we were taught gun safety and marksmanship. We were also taught archery. But no one in my family was a hunter so I didn't grow up hunting.
I must have been thirteen or so when I spent some of my saved money on a pellet pistol that resembled a .45 automatic. One summer morning I went out to the back yard early with my new weapon to kill something. I soon saw a rabbit and stealthily walked near it. I aimed to shoot but the rabbit looked me in the eye with what seemed to me a quizzical look and twitched its nose. I couldn't imagine taking its life so I just went back in the house and put my pistol in a drawer.
Six years later I bought a single-shot .410 shotgun and actually hunted a few times with friends. We'd kill squirrels and rabbits, clean them and eat the meat. Sometimes we'd fix up a burgoo and invite friends over for a picking party. But I haven't hunted or even fired a weapon as an adult. When I lived in Chicago I gave my shotgun to a friend just so it wouldn't be around to worry about. I eat meat but I'm always aware that I couldn't personally slaughter the animals.
I just don't understand the "need" to kill stuff. Why is it "fun" to take the life of another living creature?
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Post by aquaduct on Jul 29, 2015 10:33:05 GMT -5
And just what the heck is in the water in Minnesota? Y'all appear to be nuts out there.
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Post by fauxmaha on Jul 29, 2015 10:37:38 GMT -5
And just what the heck is in the water in Minnesota? Y'all appear to be nuts out there. He was distraught over the state of things with the Twins right now.
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Post by aquaduct on Jul 29, 2015 10:48:15 GMT -5
And just what the heck is in the water in Minnesota? Y'all appear to be nuts out there. He was distraught over the state of things with the Twins right now. I'm distraught about the Tigers too. But I just get in the car and go run down pedestrians the way God intended hunting to be.
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Post by patrick on Jul 29, 2015 10:50:19 GMT -5
Steven Spielberg is screwed, too, now that this picture is out: ::nods::
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Post by AlanC on Jul 29, 2015 10:58:51 GMT -5
Well at least he took it down with his bare hands.
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Post by fauxmaha on Jul 29, 2015 11:30:25 GMT -5
I see this as a story with a bunch of different dimensions. Apparently there are circumstances where hunting lions is legally permitted in Zimbabwe. Honestly, that surprises me, but if that's the way it is, that's the way it is. A lot of the social media outrage seems to be focused on the fact that Cecil* was a local favorite. Dentist isn't getting raked over the coals for shooting a lion, he's getting raked over the coals for shooting the wrong lion. Some lions are more equal than others. They baited the lion out of the safe zone and into the kill zone. I suppose the most charitable explanation is that they didn't know that Cecil was a protected lion, but that seems like a stretch. My assumption is that a detail such as that would be well known to the local professional guides. None the less, their argument is going to be that they had the necessary permits and killed the lion in the proper spot. Dentist's history of game law violations isn't helping him here. Zimbabwe is a mess of a country and has one of the highest "Corruptions Perceptions Index" rankings in the world. It's hard to imagine that there isn't a robust economy of bribery and complicity and winking between the professional guides and the various officials charged with administering the permitting system. There is little I find more distasteful in modern culture than the "Social Media Two Minute Hate". Reports of the content of recent postings to Dentist's Yelp page reveal an ugliness that I find as shocking as it is unsurprising. Ultimately, I'm probably somewhere around "ambivalent" when it comes to the fact that there are people who think hunting lions is a good thing to do. I don't like it, but I also don't live in the company of lions, and am willing to leave things to the local officials (corrupt as they may be) to manage things. I am far more bothered by the fact that the ostensibly civilized people in who's company I do live can so easily be triggered into a rage of anonymous social media venom. Because after all, they don't "hate", do they. I guess no one reads Hawthorne anymore. * No doubt named after Cecil Rhodes, and therefore a symbol of White European Colonial oppression.
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Post by millring on Jul 29, 2015 11:32:09 GMT -5
Steven Spielberg is screwed, too, now that this picture is out: ::nods:: He claims his family used it for food. Fred Flintstone backs him up on the claim.
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Post by Lonnie on Jul 29, 2015 12:16:38 GMT -5
While a lot of the social media response is based on the lion's fame and the illegality of the hunt, a lot more is based on disdain for trophy hunting in general. It matters not one bit to me whether the hunt was legal or illegal, whether the lion was beloved or anonymous. Palmer deserves every bit of the vitriol he is receiving. Killing for sport is one of the uglier pastimes of humankind, I pray that the worldwide condemnation of the dentist and the deed will cause change in the way we treat this planet's inhabitants.
Palmer didn't kill one lion. Jericho, the next male in the hierarchy will likely kill Cecil's cubs, and some of the she-lions may be killed in the bargain. There are 30,000 African lions left, there are 30,000 members of this global safari club that Palmer belongs to. This has got to stop, and if it takes being pilloried in the court of public opinion to make something happen, then so be it.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,869
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Post by Dub on Jul 29, 2015 12:26:17 GMT -5
While a lot of the social media response is based on the lion's fame and the illegality of the hunt, a lot more is based on disdain for trophy hunting in general. It matters not one bit to me whether the hunt was legal or illegal, whether the lion was beloved or anonymous. Palmer deserves every bit of the vitriol he is receiving. Killing for sport is one of the uglier pastimes of humankind, I pray that the worldwide condemnation of the dentist and the deed will cause change in the way we treat this planet's inhabitants. Palmer didn't kill one lion. Jericho, the next male in the hierarchy will likely kill his cubs, and some of the she-lion's may be killed in the bargain. There are 30,000 African lions left, there are 30,000 members of this global safari club that Palmer belongs to. This has got to stop, and if it takes being pilloried in the court of public opinion to make something happen, then so be it. Man, I wish I'd said that.
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Post by Village Idiot on Jul 29, 2015 12:34:04 GMT -5
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the guy's pure stupidity. Do not go into a country as unstable as Zimbabwe and bend any law in any shape or form. That's just asking for serious trouble.
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Post by Lonnie on Jul 29, 2015 13:00:14 GMT -5
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is the guy's pure stupidity. Do not go into a country as unstable as Zimbabwe and bend any law in any shape or form. That's just asking for serious trouble. Oh, I think his stupidity speaks for itself. There is no scenario that lets him off the hook... A. He paid the guides $50,000 to lure the lion to a place where it could be put under a spotlight and shot, knowing full well that it was a protected lion and that he was shooting it illegally. Responsibly stupid... B. He paid the guides $50,000 to lure the lion to a place where it could be put under a spotlight and shot, not knowing that it was a protected lion and that the paperwork and permits were not in order... Irresponsibly stupid. C. He paid the guides $50,000 to lure one of only 30,000 of its kind to a place where it could be put under a spotlight and shot, not knowing or caring that (see above) lions are on the decline and it would lead to other lion deaths. Clinically stupid... D. He was on a mercy mission to Zimbabwe to perform an emergency root canal on a starving child when the lion jumped into the dentist chair and began to gnaw on the kid. Well, OK, we'll give him that one...
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Post by aquaduct on Jul 29, 2015 13:49:50 GMT -5
Palmer didn't kill one lion. Jericho, the next male in the hierarchy will likely kill his cubs, and some of the she-lions may be killed in the bargain. Just out of curiosity (I genuinely don't know), what would have happened differently if the old guy had kicked from natural causes?
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Post by theevan on Jul 29, 2015 14:47:22 GMT -5
So Hemingway is celebrated for the same macho penchant.
There was a caller to a morning show that had trophy hunted in Zimbabwe three times. Interesting insight into one messed up country.
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Post by Marshall on Jul 29, 2015 16:42:45 GMT -5
Hunting, itself is OK. I would never do it. But I'm not strongly opposed to it. I eat meat every day. Some creature has died for that luxury I have. My hands are not clean. I make no bones about it. And being closer to the act of getting food has some spiritual value. But never a big game breature. Just for sport. And especially not an endangered species. That is so so so so wrong. (narcissistic, sadistic, and evil).
Fry the bastard, and all like him.
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