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Post by lar on Sept 18, 2018 19:51:49 GMT -5
What is really odd about the music that Dub posted is that even though the music is written in the key of Bb, Janice pointed out that the numbers below the staff actually represent chords in the key of G. The first chord, even though the chord is identified as Bb, is played as a G chord on the concertina. The second chord (Cm) is actually an Am and the third chord (F7) is D7.
My guess is that this music is written for a concertina that is pitched 1 1/2 steps above concert pitch. When the concertina plays a G chord, the guitar player (or other accompanist) plays a Bb chord. Easier on the accompanist than transposing on the fly.
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Post by Village Idiot on Sept 18, 2018 20:07:41 GMT -5
I do remember the chuckles that came out when Janice joined The Great Plains Desperados and whenever a song came up Roger Anderson asked what key it was in. E flat every time. After a while even the audience thought that was kind of funny.
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Post by RickW on Sept 18, 2018 20:08:13 GMT -5
What is really odd about the music that Dub posted is that even though the music is written in the key of Bb, Janice pointed out that the numbers below the staff actually represent chords in the key of G. The first chord, even though the chord is identified as Bb, is played as a G chord on the concertina. The second chord (Cm) is actually an Am and the third chord (F7) is D7. My guess is that this music is written for a concertina that is pitched 1 1/2 steps above concert pitch. When the concertina plays a G chord, the guitar player (or other accompanist) plays a Bb chord. Easier on the accompanist than transposing on the fly. It actually looks like it might be G Minor, as that is relative minor for Bb. And the melody noes in the first bar are G, D and F, so Gm7, (though it’s missing the third, of course,) so why it would say Bb for a chord, I dunno, as there’s no Bb in the melody. |
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Post by lar on Sept 18, 2018 20:27:52 GMT -5
I agree, Rick. I got out Janice's concertina chart to make sure of what I'm about to write.
The second measure, which is identified as Bb contains the following symbols underneath the staff: 2
1 3 1/2
4
The numbers on the 3 lines above have been edited. After I posted this I noticed that the numbers didn't show up the way they should have. I've fixed it now. Sorry. Lar
There is a carat over the numbers above the staff. That indicates that the player is pressing the bellows in while playing the notes.
2, 3, and 4 represent G, B, and D respectively. That's a G chord. The 1 is a G and the 1/2 (yes, Virginia, there really is a button labeled "1/2) is a D. The 1 and the 1/2 are the bass notes. The three __ symbols to the right of the numbers signify that the same chord is to be played.
For those of you who are foolish enough to believe that I've just discovered the secret of the concertina I wish to point out that the little scrap of information I was able to glean from Janice's chart took me 10 minutes to decipher and convert to English. This ain't an instrument for the faint of heart.
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Post by lar on Sept 18, 2018 20:56:49 GMT -5
I was pretty much okay with what I found out when I dug into Janice's chart and translated the first chord. So I sallied forth and tried another translating job on the next measure, the one labeled Cm.
What I found was that the numbers representing the chord were the same. 2, 3, and 4. But the two bass notes had changed. 1/2 is a G and 0 is an F. I don't get it. And I've invested another 15 minutes. Good grief!
One lesson I've learned from looking up songs on the internet is that the lyrics and chords for a given song are often wrong. Since the piece Dub posted was hand written and some of Janice's hand written music has turned out to need some fine tuning I'm wondering if that's the case here. Of course what I know about arranging a piece of music is next to nothing it might be that this makes sense after all.
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Post by John B on Sept 18, 2018 21:28:57 GMT -5
I appreciate your efforts, Lar!
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Post by lar on Sept 19, 2018 8:45:06 GMT -5
I was pretty much okay with what I found out when I dug into Janice's chart and translated the first chord. So I sallied forth and tried another translating job on the next measure, the one labeled Cm. What I found was that the numbers representing the chord were the same. 2, 3, and 4. But the two bass notes had changed. 1/2 is a G and 0 is an F. I don't get it. And I've invested another 15 minutes. Good grief! One lesson I've learned from looking up songs on the internet is that the lyrics and chords for a given song are often wrong. Since the piece Dub posted was hand written and some of Janice's hand written music has turned out to need some fine tuning I'm wondering if that's the case here. Of course what I know about arranging a piece of music is next to nothing it might be that this makes sense after all. Major apology to all. When I wrote the above last night I misinterpreted the info on Janice's chart. I failed to notice that there were no carats above the chords in the measure labeled Cm. Therefor the bellows were to be pulled out and the notes are different than what I wrote above. Tonight I'll revisit the chart and post again. The more involved I get in this the more I wonder how anyone ever learns to play the concertina. This is really hard stuff! When I say things like that Janice just laughs at me. |
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Post by lar on Sept 19, 2018 19:27:47 GMT -5
Okay, it's the old concertina professor back with more fascinating and delightful concertina stuff.
Where I left off yesterday I was explaining the left hand chord on the measure labeled Cm on the concertina music that Dub posted. As I've explained, where I went wrong was that the measure in question is playing while pulling out the bellows and the previous measure was played while pressing in the bellows. Even though the button numbers of the chord being played are the same, pulling out the bellows changes the pitch. Consequently button 2 now equals A, 3 is C, and 4 is E. It's an Am chord. The 1/2 button = A and the O button is C.
You may have noticed that when the bellows are being pulled the pitch of buttons 2 and 4 are raised a full-step. For reasons that no one understands button 3 is only raised a half-step. Even weirder is the fact that the 1/2 button is an A when the bellows are pulled and a D when they are being pressed. Who can remember all that crap? Not the old professor, that's for sure. In fact I'm beginning to wonder how concertina players can drink so much beer and still play. It's a mystery.
That concludes thus series of concertina lessons. I'm now going back to a safe and sane instrument; my guitar.
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Post by RickW on Sept 19, 2018 23:49:45 GMT -5
Lord, that is confusing. The in and out...... Yeesh.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 20,523 
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Post by Dub on Sept 20, 2018 8:04:41 GMT -5
I’m guessing that it wouldn’t seem as confusing if I just picked up a concertina and poked around trying to make a tune. The arrangement of notes and chords would eventually become obvious if not second nature. A ten-hole mouth harp has that in-and-out idea too but it doesn’t take that long to figure it out.
I think sight reading from a chart would be more confusing, having to physically react to that much information in real time. Sight reading a lead sheet onto a guitar seems much easier to me.
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Post by drlj on Sept 20, 2018 12:39:39 GMT -5
No need to apologize for any misinformation, Lar. I didn’t even understand the good information so it was all the same to me.
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Post by lar on Sept 20, 2018 13:27:05 GMT -5
Dub, I encourage you to give the concertina a shot. You're a braver man than I am. To get you started here's a link to a diagram of the keyboard. Concertina KeyboardNow all you've got to do is visit the local pawnshops and see if you can find a chemnitzer concertina that is in good working order. Piece of cake! |
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