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Post by aquaduct on Apr 30, 2020 20:19:49 GMT -5
A highly respected (and respectable) fellow forumite (no, not Jeff. Another one) contacted me through Facebook a couple days ago and said "you should really see this movie. It's what you've been saying all along". Well, hell, I can't resist that.
Offered here without further comment.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,903
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Post by Dub on Apr 30, 2020 22:37:58 GMT -5
I am proud to say that it was I who recommended this documentary. I’m ashamed to say that I am not deserving of Peter’s complements.
This documentary gets at core of a lot of issues. It isn’t comfortable but it’s really worth the time to watch.
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Post by sidheguitarmichael on May 1, 2020 2:17:23 GMT -5
You guys had me at "Peter likes a Michael Moore film." This I’ve got to see.
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Post by millring on May 1, 2020 6:50:25 GMT -5
Bring back eugenics! Only the right people should be allowed to live!
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Post by james on May 1, 2020 8:27:43 GMT -5
www.vox.com/2020/4/28/21238597/michael-moore-planet-of-the-humans-climate-change350.org/response-planet-of-the-humans-documentary/David Roberts of Vox writes: Here's how it happens: a dude who has made a name for himself in some other field decides, "climate change is important, I need to look into it." He parachutes in, reads some sliver of the literature, talks to some sliver of people. And the result is always the same. Not the same in that they come to the same conclusions, but the same in a few key ways: a) they conclude that what looks like a hopelessly tangled mess of social/tech/political/scientific issues...is in fact simple, and there's a simple answer that follows from some simple logic. And b) implied by a, or sometimes made explicit, is the fact that environmentalists & other people who have been studying & working on this issue for decades are f'ing idiots who missed this obvious train of logic & deny the obvious solution because they're idiots. The simple answer to the complex question varies from dude to dude. Often it's nuclear power (dudes love nuclear power). Sometimes it's tax÷nd. Sometimes it's doomer-style "the battle is already lost." But it's always *obvious* & greens are always *idiots* for missing it. Or greens are not just idiots, but also Machiavellian schemers, secretly bought off my this or that shadowy force & serving some agenda other than climate -- maybe socialism, maybe neoliberalism, maybe Malthusian nihilism. Whatever, they're just *not what they appear*. Like I said, the details differ, but the common thread is always that First-Time Climate Dude is brilliant, able to see things from a higher perspective than the poor benighted partisan greens, who are lost in groupthink. In my experience, what happens to these Dudes is, the world fails to bow before their brilliance, greens refuse to adopt their slogans & keep pushing back with contrary information or priorities, and they ... get frustrated & bored. And go First-Time Dude some other area. Stay in climate journalism long enough and the Eternal Recurrence of First-Time Dudes becomes ... wearying. Edit - ketanjoshi.co/2020/04/24/planet-of-the-humans-a-reheated-mess-of-lazy-old-myths/
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Post by fauxmaha on May 1, 2020 9:08:00 GMT -5
I love when I have physics Voxsplained to me.
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Post by aquaduct on May 1, 2020 9:09:41 GMT -5
I love when I have physics Voxsplained to me. By a journalist no less.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,903
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Post by Dub on May 1, 2020 9:18:58 GMT -5
I don’t think this is really a Michael Moore film. He doesn’t appear in it anywhere, not even as a voice. I think he picked it up and lent his name to it to give it more visibility. I may be wrong.
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Post by millring on May 1, 2020 9:58:57 GMT -5
wait.
Dub was the respected forumite?
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Post by millring on May 1, 2020 9:59:29 GMT -5
Now I have to go rethink the meaning of "respected".
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Post by aquaduct on May 1, 2020 10:06:43 GMT -5
wait.Dub was the respected forumite? Yeah, it wasn't even a fellow Nazi.
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Post by millring on May 1, 2020 10:07:23 GMT -5
Dub comes off all nice and stuff but it's only because he is.
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Post by Marshall on May 1, 2020 10:08:20 GMT -5
Michael Moore has always been someone that champions the Michigan auto workers. Smart and witty. Never concerned about painting a full picture. Just shedding bright spot light on his particular point of view. It'll be interesting to watch some time. I don't expect it to be definitive. But you certainly will come away knowing his point of view.
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Post by fauxmaha on May 1, 2020 10:19:23 GMT -5
I love when I have physics Voxsplained to me. I don't want anyone to think that is a frivolous comment. Vox is the home of the hopelessly ideologically captured, and their metaphysical worldview is reasonably well described as "reality is a social construct". It would take more time than I have at the moment to unpack it, but one of the most supremely ironic realities in our present age is the level of intersection between the social constructionists and the "IFLS" crowd. Which is to say, they have actually convinced themselves that their constructionism is in "fact" (scare quotes because they don't define "fact" in the way you and I do) scientific. The most profound mass act of Orwellian doublethink in history is hiding in plain sight, right in front of us. All you have to do is pay attention to Ezra Klein to see it. If you want to see it in somewhat condensed form, his podcast with Sam Harris pretty much lays it all out. It is somewhere between amusing and tragic seeing the likes of them being bashed on the rocks of reality, but such bashing is inevitable. Physics is a cruel mistress.
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Post by aquaduct on May 1, 2020 10:20:44 GMT -5
I don’t think this is really a Michael Moore film. He doesn’t appear in it anywhere, not even as a voice. I think he picked it up and lent his name to it to give it more visibility. I may be wrong. I believe he's only the money guy (aka Executive Producer).
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,903
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Post by Dub on May 1, 2020 11:20:40 GMT -5
I love when I have physics Voxsplained to me. I don't want anyone to think that is a frivolous comment. Vox is the home of the hopelessly ideologically captured, and their metaphysical worldview is reasonably well described as "reality is a social construct". It would take more time than I have at the moment to unpack it, but one of the most supremely ironic realities in our present age is the level of intersection between the social constructionists and the "IFLS" crowd. Which is to say, they have actually convinced themselves that their constructionism is in "fact" (scare quotes because they don't define "fact" in the way you and I do) scientific. The most profound mass act of Orwellian doublethink in history is hiding in plain sight, right in front of us. All you have to do is pay attention to Ezra Klein to see it. If you want to see it in somewhat condensed form, his podcast with Sam Harris pretty much lays it all out. It is somewhere between amusing and tragic seeing the likes of them being bashed on the rocks of reality, but such bashing is inevitable. Physics is a cruel mistress. As an avowed leftist, I too find VOX kind of unsettling. I never go to their site on purpose. It’s usually because Apple’s News amalgamation app has taken me to one of their articles. I did delve into the other articles that James linked. I understand their point of view but I get the feeling that we didn’t see the same documentary film. They are probably closer to the affray than I. I didn’t come away thinking that Planet of the Humans was opposed to finding renewable sources of energy. It simply points out the weakness behind our current efforts and the physics, geology, and geography that make truly “green” energy so elusive and, probably, unlikely. These are hard things to consider. My heart is solidly with the “Greens” but Mr. Kilpatrick, my brilliant high school physics teacher, keeps popping up in the back of my mind suggesting that I may not have thought It all through. I’m sure he’d just love to assign me a research paper on the subject. I think everyone should watch this film and give it some thought. Every point of view will come away with a different set of implications, possible outcomes, and suggested remedies but I get the feeling we can’t bring our own set of “facts” to this one.
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Post by aquaduct on May 1, 2020 11:38:03 GMT -5
I don't want anyone to think that is a frivolous comment. Vox is the home of the hopelessly ideologically captured, and their metaphysical worldview is reasonably well described as "reality is a social construct". It would take more time than I have at the moment to unpack it, but one of the most supremely ironic realities in our present age is the level of intersection between the social constructionists and the "IFLS" crowd. Which is to say, they have actually convinced themselves that their constructionism is in "fact" (scare quotes because they don't define "fact" in the way you and I do) scientific. The most profound mass act of Orwellian doublethink in history is hiding in plain sight, right in front of us. All you have to do is pay attention to Ezra Klein to see it. If you want to see it in somewhat condensed form, his podcast with Sam Harris pretty much lays it all out. It is somewhere between amusing and tragic seeing the likes of them being bashed on the rocks of reality, but such bashing is inevitable. Physics is a cruel mistress. As an avowed leftist, I too find VOX kind of unsettling. I never go to their site on purpose. It’s usually because Apple’s News amalgamation app has taken me to one of their articles. I did delve into the other articles that James linked. I understand their point of view but I get the feeling that we didn’t see the same documentary film. They are probably closer to the affray than I. I didn’t come away thinking that Planet of the Humans was opposed to finding renewable sources of energy. It simply points out the weakness behind our current efforts and the physics, geology, and geography that make truly “green” energy so elusive and, probably, unlikely. These are hard things to consider. My heart is solidly with the “Greens” but Mr. Kilpatrick, my brilliant high school physics teacher, keeps popping up in the back of my mind suggesting that I may not have thought It all through. I’m sure he’d just love to assign me a research paper on the subject. I think everyone should watch this film and give it some thought. Every point of view will come away with a different set of implications, possible outcomes, and suggested remedies but I get the feeling we can’t bring our own set of “facts” to this one. The only thing I'd add that really seemed to be conveyed here was that in a cruel irony, "green" energy proves to be ultimately more destructive to the planet than regular energy sources.
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Post by John B on May 1, 2020 11:52:13 GMT -5
I love when I have physics Voxsplained to me. I don't want anyone to think that is a frivolous comment. Vox is the home of the hopelessly ideologically captured, and their metaphysical worldview is reasonably well described as "reality is a social construct". It would take more time than I have at the moment to unpack it, but one of the most supremely ironic realities in our present age is the level of intersection between the social constructionists and the "IFLS" crowd. Which is to say, they have actually convinced themselves that their constructionism is in "fact" (scare quotes because they don't define "fact" in the way you and I do) scientific. The most profound mass act of Orwellian doublethink in history is hiding in plain sight, right in front of us. All you have to do is pay attention to Ezra Klein to see it. If you want to see it in somewhat condensed form, his podcast with Sam Harris pretty much lays it all out. It is somewhere between amusing and tragic seeing the likes of them being bashed on the rocks of reality, but such bashing is inevitable. Physics is a cruel mistress. What is IFLS?
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Post by coachdoc on May 1, 2020 11:54:33 GMT -5
I am not going to spend an hour and a half watching this. That said. How about tidal power? Temperature gradient power? Transmission of the electricity produced is the biggest hole in that that I have been introduced to. Hope y'all feel edified for watching the video.
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Post by fauxmaha on May 1, 2020 11:59:08 GMT -5
I don't want anyone to think that is a frivolous comment. Vox is the home of the hopelessly ideologically captured, and their metaphysical worldview is reasonably well described as "reality is a social construct". It would take more time than I have at the moment to unpack it, but one of the most supremely ironic realities in our present age is the level of intersection between the social constructionists and the "IFLS" crowd. Which is to say, they have actually convinced themselves that their constructionism is in "fact" (scare quotes because they don't define "fact" in the way you and I do) scientific. The most profound mass act of Orwellian doublethink in history is hiding in plain sight, right in front of us. All you have to do is pay attention to Ezra Klein to see it. If you want to see it in somewhat condensed form, his podcast with Sam Harris pretty much lays it all out. It is somewhere between amusing and tragic seeing the likes of them being bashed on the rocks of reality, but such bashing is inevitable. Physics is a cruel mistress. What is IFLS? I F*cking Love Science.
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