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Post by drlj on Oct 20, 2021 10:29:49 GMT -5
It used to be a surprising grace to come to the realization that denominations were a wonderful thing -- a manifestation of an ineffable God and a diversity of humans trying to understand him the best way they could. But it was wonderful because back then almost all of Christianity still believed that God was really real. ii I would properly attribute if I could remember who first said it, but we're living in a culture of Christian Atheists. That is, the God they don't believe in is the Christian one. Interesting. You do make me think/see outside of my box. Funny. It just makes me roll my eyes. Which tends to make me feel dizzy.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
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Post by Dub on Oct 20, 2021 13:15:56 GMT -5
The thing that gets me every time is the singing. You have to be there to understand. I've yet to experience anything quite like it anywhere. The children learn to read shape note before they can read English. And their manner of singing is just amazing. Normally the men sit on one side and the women on the other (with the little doilies on their heads) and I usually ended up near the back next to Johnny Unruh. But when Wendy and I went last time they instead had families sitting together with space to the next family. We were way up front. What I heard that day brought such a flow of tears and goosebumps! We know quite a few Mennonites as there are several communities south of here. Most of "our" Mennonites are quite outwardly modern in the ways they live choosing to avail themselves of the same conveniences and technologies the people around them enjoy. It was interesting to me to learn that the old order Amish groups were a later schismatic outcropping from the Mennonites. I had assumed that it was the other way around. We mostly get involved with them in musical ways, doing shows with them at the Iowa Mennonite School and other venues. One time we were hired to perform during a Sunday morning service at a rural Mennonite church. Needless to say, we felt way overmatched. It was from those people that we learned what Evan is talking about and older members told us they learned to sing from shape notes before learning to read. When they sang hymns, they were in perfect four-part harmony and entirely a cappella. The balance was perfect between the parts and no offensive voice was heard. It made us wonder why on earth they hired us at all. Really nice people one and all.
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Post by drlj on Oct 20, 2021 13:32:12 GMT -5
Shape note singers fascinate me. I have heard them perform and even got to look through some 100+ year old shape note hymnals. Those folks sing with a power that is unmatched. It gave me chills to hear them.
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Post by theevan on Oct 20, 2021 14:55:07 GMT -5
Shape note singers fascinate me. I have heard them perform and even got to look through some 100+ year old shape note hymnals. Those folks sing with a power that is unmatched. It gave me chills to hear them. When you speak "power" you're talking about golden harp singing. They sing from shape note music, but the style is entirely different. Mennonites sing in a more restrained, even manner. Golden harp singing often uses older, modal melodies for familiar hymns, and they sing high and powerfully. It's almost eerie. I went to a Primitive Baptist "sing" one Saturday that blew me away. Could have used hearing protection. On most hymns they use a pitch-pipe for reference, then the parts find their pitch, then the verse is first sung in solfege. Fa-la-la-do-ti-la-do, and so forth. A real experience. Very Appalachian.
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Post by drlj on Oct 20, 2021 15:02:19 GMT -5
Shape note singers fascinate me. I have heard them perform and even got to look through some 100+ year old shape note hymnals. Those folks sing with a power that is unmatched. It gave me chills to hear them. When you speak "power" you're talking about golden harp singing. They sing from shape note music, but the style is entirely different. Mennonites sing in a more restrained, even manner. Golden harp singing often uses older, modal melodies for familiar hymns, and they sing high and powerfully. It's almost eerie. I went to a Primitive Baptist "sing" one Saturday that blew me away. Could have used hearing protection. On most hymns they use a pitch-pipe for reference, then the parts find their pitch, then the verse is first sung in solfege. Fa-la-la-do-ti-la-do, and so forth. A real experience. Very Appalachian. Right. That is what I experienced. It was Golden Harp singing.
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Post by robjh22 on Oct 20, 2021 17:19:34 GMT -5
I've heard some golden harp singing, and it is indeed beautiful. I think the haunting nature of it resides muchly in those perfect 5ths and in their earnestness. I don't hear any dynamics, which is fine. Maybe I just can't hear them. We are talking about the "shape" of the notes as they appear on the page, right? Not the shaping of the note with the mouth and cavity, right (?) TBH, I don't see the advantage of this "shaped" note system. The notes, or some of them, look a bit different from those written in standard notation, but the system still has to be learned, and the result in either system is going to be a given pitch for a given duration of time. And I REALLY don't get this: The idea behind shape notes is that the parts of a vocal work can be learned more quickly and easily if the music is printed in shapes that match up with the solfège syllables with which the notes of the musical scale are sung. If you struggle with one system, you'll struggle with the other. And if you get a big group together, I really think you only need a handful who know the melody. The rest (assuming they aren't tone deaf) can pick it up by ear. Maybe I'm missing something. Anyway, the sound reminds me of the singing in a Caucasian Cossack Dance, which is not that Ukraine/Russain Hopak Folk Dance like you saw in the movie Patton.
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Post by robjh22 on Oct 20, 2021 17:21:52 GMT -5
Shape note singers fascinate me. I have heard them perform and even got to look through some 100+ year old shape note hymnals. Those folks sing with a power that is unmatched. It gave me chills to hear them. When you speak "power" you're talking about golden harp singing. They sing from shape note music, but the style is entirely different. Mennonites sing in a more restrained, even manner. Golden harp singing often uses older, modal melodies for familiar hymns, and they sing high and powerfully. It's almost eerie. I went to a Primitive Baptist "sing" one Saturday that blew me away. Could have used hearing protection. On most hymns they use a pitch-pipe for reference, then the parts find their pitch, then the verse is first sung in solfege. Fa-la-la-do-ti-la-do, and so forth. A real experience. Very Appalachian. Is "primitive Baptist" a denomination? I may look them up around here. On edit: Whoa! There must be a dozen around here! That's my next destination.
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Post by james on Oct 20, 2021 18:24:44 GMT -5
Is golden harp singing different from sacred harp singing?
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Post by billhammond on Oct 20, 2021 19:01:05 GMT -5
Also in the Appalachian singing vein, the wonderful Anonymous 4, sometimes backed by acoustic guitar master Scott Nygaard, who I got to know a bit at Swannanoa and Healdsburg, Calif.
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Post by Marshall on Oct 20, 2021 19:16:30 GMT -5
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Post by theevan on Oct 21, 2021 3:59:06 GMT -5
Is golden harp singing different from sacred harp singing? Same thing.
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Post by millring on Oct 21, 2021 4:13:53 GMT -5
Shape note singers fascinate me. I have heard them perform and even got to look through some 100+ year old shape note hymnals. Those folks sing with a power that is unmatched. It gave me chills to hear them. When you speak "power" you're talking about golden harp singing. They sing from shape note music, but the style is entirely different. Mennonites sing in a more restrained, even manner. Golden harp singing often uses older, modal melodies for familiar hymns, and they sing high and powerfully. It's almost eerie. I went to a Primitive Baptist "sing" one Saturday that blew me away. Could have used hearing protection. On most hymns they use a pitch-pipe for reference, then the parts find their pitch, then the verse is first sung in solfege. Fa-la-la-do-ti-la-do, and so forth. A real experience. Very Appalachian. I once told the story of my friend, Dallas' funeral. The singing was that. I went to hear Garrison Keillor read from Lake Wobegon Days at Goshen College. Before he started he said, "I've heard that the Mennonites have a special Doxology?" What followed was a room full of perhaps the most beautiful harmony I've ever heard.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,919
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Post by Dub on Oct 21, 2021 8:29:25 GMT -5
Also in the Appalachian singing vein, the wonderful Anonymous 4, sometimes backed by acoustic guitar master Scott Nygaard, who I got to know a bit at Swannanoa and Healdsburg, Calif. Total, completely uncalled for digression.
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