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Post by TKennedy on Jan 12, 2022 11:21:14 GMT -5
tAnd of course the mandatory case of ether bombs in the back seat. It always seemed like a nasty wake up call for an engine peacefully at rest. I'd almost forgotten popping the air filter housing off of the top of the engine and spraying starter fluid right in to a carburetor. And they were dangerous. Especially in the spring when the empty ones were rolling around all over the garage floor and you’d trip over them.
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Post by epaul on Jan 12, 2022 16:09:19 GMT -5
I reckon that fuel injection, computerized combustion mapping and synthetic oil have made our cars a lot more startable in winter. Very true. The combination of the above has done a number on sales of dealer-installed headbolt heaters. They used to a "standard" option installed on any new car sold up here. No longer. I still think they are a good idea, but Gus has demonstrated several times, to my chagrin, that our cars now will start up like a top at 30 to 40 below without being plugged-in. (once, when I sent Gus out at -40 to plug in the Subaru, he realized that the cord didn't reach. So, he started the car and drove forward until it did. Then he shut off the car and plugged it in. AARRGH! Quite the problem solver, that young Gus. The two biggies are synthetic oil and computerized fuel injection. Syn-oils flow more easily in cold weather than conventional oils even though the rated viscosity is the same (as proven conclusively at the Newfolden Bus Garage and elsewhere). This reduces the friction the (weakened) battery-powered starter has to overcome. It matters. Computerized fuel injection has eliminated human-caused flooding of the carburetor. Flooding the carb has probably resulted more wintertime "no starts" than run down batteries. Now there is no more setting the choke or working the pedal artistry (leading to doom). There no thinking or touching involved. Just turn the key. The right mixture of gas and air is delivered automaticaly. Frontline report from the battlefield. Cars do start much more easily than they used to in cold weather This is due to improved oil blends and improved ignition systems (and no more pedal pumping). (these new improvements are no longer new, but then, neither are we)
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Post by Russell Letson on Jan 12, 2022 17:29:23 GMT -5
When we moved up here from southern Illinois, we bought a Datsun F10 wagon, and before we learned about aftermarket block heaters, I would slide a shop light with a 150-watt bulb under the engine compartment when the temps dropped really low. It worked remarkably well, though I did have to make sure there was no leaf litter on the garage floor--or oil leaks from the engine.
We still depend on a block heater for the Outback, though it starts pretty well even at -5. But it clearly isn't happy when it's that cold. Maybe next oil change (which is nearly due) I'll switch to synthetic.
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Post by Jawbone on Jan 12, 2022 17:56:33 GMT -5
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Post by epaul on Jan 12, 2022 18:24:34 GMT -5
Jawbone, my wife wants to know what your picture-thingie is. If it is a quilt, she is impressed. If it isn't a quilt, she is impressed.
(I told her you already have three wives, so she lost interest in you, but she still likes that whatever it is)
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Post by epaul on Jan 12, 2022 18:39:06 GMT -5
And, of course, batteries don't like hot weather, either. More car batteries are lost to hot weather than cold. (I think)
So, to maximize your EV range, don't park in the sun, don't use the AC when it is hot out, and don't use the super-duper fast charge on a super hot day as the extra heat generated by the fast charge will just accelerate the degeneration of the battery. 's
If it isn't one thing, it's the other.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 12, 2022 19:07:47 GMT -5
When we moved up here from southern Illinois, we bought a Datsun F10 wagon, and before we learned about aftermarket block heaters, I would slide a shop light with a 150-watt bulb under the engine compartment when the temps dropped really low. It worked remarkably well, though I did have to make sure there was no leaf litter on the garage floor--or oil leaks from the engine. We still depend on a block heater for the Outback, though it starts pretty well even at -5. But it clearly isn't happy when it's that cold. Maybe next oil change (which is nearly due) I'll switch to synthetic. "Synthetic" really doesn't have much to do with it. It's oil viscosity as indicated by 10W-40, etc. Ask the technician for recommendations on lower viscosities, 5W-30, 5W-20, or even 0W-20 which have become ever more popular as engines and the passages through which the oil flows have gotten smaller. That's where your solutions to those problems are, synthetic or not. However, good (and expensive) synthetics have some good junk neutralizing (sometimes I brain fart on the specific industry terms) properties and may be worth it. Generally, folks who fix cars will know such things pretty well.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 12, 2022 19:11:50 GMT -5
Oh, and oil viscosity ratings are determined by lab testing by API (American Petroleum Institute), not the Newfolden Bus Garage.
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Post by epaul on Jan 12, 2022 20:02:44 GMT -5
Synthetic has a lot to do with it. Look into it.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 12, 2022 20:07:59 GMT -5
Synthetic has a lot to do with it. Look into it. I'm an automotive engineer. I have.
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Post by epaul on Jan 12, 2022 20:12:25 GMT -5
The hell you have. You are twenty years out of date.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 12, 2022 21:41:11 GMT -5
The hell you have. You are twenty years out of date. I'm not going to honor such a gratuitous, nasty insult with the swear word filled response it deserves. The moderators will just have to wait for their next chance to ban me.
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Post by epaul on Jan 12, 2022 22:49:18 GMT -5
So, you did look into it.
And discovered what is widely understood by both ends and the middle of the automotive business, synthetic oils offer greater engine protection at extreme temperatures; better flowability in the cold and greater resistance to breakdown in the heat. Synthetic oil is now offered as standard in all virtually all new vehicles because of the advantages it offers. Chevy, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, Subaru, VW, Audi, Mercedes Benz, KIA, Hyundi are all fully synthetic out the factory door. Who am I missing, oh yes, Ford. Ford is currently transitioning from the synthetic blend it had been shipping its new vehicles with to full synthetic. By next year, Ford will likely be fully synthetic along with everyone else.
If anyone cares to google the question “does synthetic oil offer greater flowability in cold weather”, you will get ten pages of hits from sites A-Z all saying “Yes, they do” without a nay say to be found. Automotive sites, oil company sites, mechanic sites, even Consumer Reports, which I will quote:
But, again, what CR says is exactly what you will find everywhere else because that is what is widely understood to be the case, as it has been for twenty years.
Synthetic oil’s advantage in cold weather is as exactly as Bill said it was, though that didn’t stop Aqua from jumping in dismissively and saying, No you are wrong., I know better than you! Physics! And synthetic oil’s advantage in cold weather is exactly as I said it was (in support of Bill, who was dead ass right). And again, Aqua jumps in, No, no it doesn't. I know better than you! I'm an engineer! He even insulted the “hands on, skin in the game” folks at the Newfolden Bus Garage. And it just isn't right to insult and dismiss "skin in the game, hands on" common folk who get the jobs done and keep the wheels rolling.
And, well, that got things off on the wrong foot.
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Post by epaul on Jan 12, 2022 22:49:29 GMT -5
People, do your own checking. It's easy. You won't find anyone who knows anything saying differently, synthetic oils (and transmission fluid and gear lubes) do perform better when the conditions are extreme. Ask NASCAR, ask the Canadian Polar Expedition Force.
Do be aware, for your own purposes, that if your conditions aren’t extreme, a synthetic blend will offer all the performance you likely will every need at a nice savings.
But, above all and in all cases, use the oil type recommended in your car’s owner’s manual. Many of you will find, with newer cars that have newer oil formulations (like 0-20, 0-40, 5-50), that a fully synthetic oil will likely be your only option as these oils only come as synthetics.
(but don’t expect get a fuel savings that you will notice, go for the hot/cold/longer life part)
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Post by epaul on Jan 12, 2022 23:22:34 GMT -5
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Post by John B on Jan 12, 2022 23:30:28 GMT -5
In other, kind of related news, we have an electric school bus, one advantage of being a company town (but mainly thanks to the VW settlement). Cummins installed V2G technology and Duke donated a fast charger which will allow the bus (V) to transfer power back to (2) the grid (G), so it can operate as one big battery backup for a building in the case of a power outage. "“There are several ways that V2G technology can be utilized to provide additional value to the school district outside of the electric bus’s primary responsibility of delivering children to and from school,” he said. “Some use case examples include utilizing V2G to provide power during outages, much like a generator, it can shift the need to produce and consume additional electricity during peak times, or it can be used for frequency regulation to help stabilize and smooth grid power.” Wallpe said that Duke is also interested in exploring the capabilities of “vehicle-to-grid connection to a mobile battery source.”" Certainly something in its infancy, and maybe won't amount to much, but interesting that someone came up with the idea. www.therepublic.com/2022/01/11/mobile-power-bcsc-installs-fast-charger-for-electric-buses/
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Post by RickW on Jan 12, 2022 23:57:12 GMT -5
My wife knew some folks who moved here from Alberta to work. They were freaking out, asking where in the apartment building parking you plugged in your block heater. No one in the apartment building new what the hell they were talking about. My wife, who grew up in Montreal told them that you didn’t need block heaters in Vancouver. I mean, that’s why people move here from Alberta. Good rule of thumb. Don’t live in a place where you need a block heater.
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Post by xyrn on Jan 13, 2022 0:00:01 GMT -5
My ex-wife's family in Minnesota told me they used to hang work lights with high-wattage bulbs in them under the hoods of their garaged cars to keep the batteries and oil pans warm. Minnesotans here: true or false?
Possible, but more common was the so-called head bolt heater, which kept oil warm enough to allow the engine to turn over in the morning more easily. I’ve used a dipstick heater available from NAPA etc in a few vehicles. They work okay, just have to take them out before starting the car.
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Post by epaul on Jan 13, 2022 0:11:40 GMT -5
I saw a not unusual Minnesota sight while crossing University Ave with Casper this evening... a mangled, cracked, and thoroughly driven over to pieces extension cord lying in the middle of the street. Yep, another person drove off without remembering to unplug the car, dragging the cord behind for how long...
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Post by epaul on Jan 13, 2022 1:07:51 GMT -5
A FWIW... Engine oils come with a SAE rating. This is a standardized quality/performance test/rating the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) administers to motor oils. Multi-viscosity oils, such as 5W-30, are tested at two temperatures, a low temperature and a high temperature, to determine their performance characteristics at those two temperatures. The first number represents the oil's performance at the low temperature, the second number represents the performance at the high temperature. The lower the first number, the better that oil will perform in low temperatures, the higher the second number the better that oil will perform in high temperatures. The numbers themselves don't refer to anything in particular that I'm aware of, they are standardized units the industry uses for rating oil characteristics within a range of temperatures, or more specifically, the oils performance at a specified low temperature and at a specified high temperature. So... What is the low temperature the SAE tests multi-weight oils at? 0 degree F (-17.8 C) What is the high temperature the SAE test multi-weight oils at? 212 degrees F ((100 C) The SAE does not test oil performance at -40. But, the guys at the Newfolden Bus Garage do! lubricants.totalenergies.com/consumers/maintenancetips/Oil-viscosity-and-oil-grades
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