Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,900
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Post by Dub on Jun 6, 2023 10:48:32 GMT -5
Gone at 83.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,900
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Post by Dub on Jun 6, 2023 11:56:33 GMT -5
This might interest Terry and Russell. I thought it was pretty cool.
Warning! Deep theory.
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Post by Cornflake on Jun 6, 2023 12:27:41 GMT -5
Her version of Girl From Ipanema really grabbed me when I fist heard it. RIP.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,900
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Post by Dub on Jun 6, 2023 12:39:44 GMT -5
It turns out that is the second most recorded song in history, according to the Adam Neely video linked above.
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Post by billhammond on Jun 6, 2023 13:04:22 GMT -5
It turns out that is the second most recorded song in history, according to the Adan Neely video linked above. No. 1, of course, is "You're Having My Baby."
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Post by Russell Letson on Jun 6, 2023 13:10:05 GMT -5
Was the original key set for the vocalist? I learned it in two keys for our singer--the arrangement started with Dan's instrumental in the Real Book canonical key of F and modulated to C for Deanna's vocal. Later I also learned to accompany "Manha de Carnaval" in the canonical key of Am.
In my experience, key assignments have more to do with the preferences and limitations of vocalists and instrumentalists (along with published and Real Book versions) than cultural imperialism. And in any case, musicians just emulate, copy, jam-along-with, and generally make off with anything that's not nailed down. And I wonder, does this young dude (who, to be fair, has done a lot of homework) know about how popular various "latin" (more properly, Afro-latin) musical traditions were in the decades before bossa nova? Some of my parents' favorite dance music was what we would now call Afro-Cuban. Thank New York City's musical-polyglot culture for much of that.
BTW, while Real Book versions (even the corrected, legal ones) are all over the place, the guys I sit in with are strongly ear/recorded-version-guided, to the point that they hand-correct their iReal scores. Which they barely look at when they play familiar material.
The video guy also oversimplifies the "A-Train" chords--the second chord is not a straight dom-7 but a 7-flat-5--you can hear it in the melody/lyric's half-step: Har-lem. And that kind of half-step move is all over "Ipanema"--the vamp starts with I-#I.
When I think of bossa nova, I think first about the beat, which is samba, which is held down by percussion as much as the bass line. Then I hear the harmonic/melodic structure, which is unavoidably a mixture of traditions, even in its most original forms. So the cultural-imperialism/appropriation/Americanization/whatever part of the conversation don't mean a thing to me.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,900
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Post by Dub on Jun 6, 2023 13:59:02 GMT -5
Was the original key set for the vocalist? I learned it in two keys for our singer--the arrangement started with Dan's instrumental in the Real Book canonical key of F and modulated to C for Deanna's vocal. Later I also learned to accompany "Manha de Carnaval" in the canonical key of Am. According to Adam Neely, in the video, the original key is Db and that is considered canonical in Brazil. Of course in the US (and the Real Book) it's in F. Neely talks about Stevie Wonder playing it in Db when performing in Brazil and in F otherwise. Stevie didn't want to offend the Brazilians.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jun 6, 2023 14:16:04 GMT -5
My question to Neely would be, "Why is D-flat 'canonical' in Brazil, outside of culture-warrior settings?" In my experience, key assignments start with the performers, and if that first public performance of "Ipanema" he mentioned is actually in D-flat, there would have been a practical reason for it. I suspect that few unschooled Brazilian players would have chosen that key. Which means that it suited somebody's vocal range or the technical challenges of an instrumentalist. (Even as adept a fiddler as Joy must find some keys less fun to play than others.)
Since I'm already familiar with modulating to C, I could figure out a way of playing the tune in D-flat (which is to say, C#) without too much trouble, though it would and take a while to get used to having the dots in the wrong place. But aside from perfect-pitch (and Brazilian cultural-nationalist) listeners in the audience, who would care?
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Post by TKennedy on Jun 6, 2023 14:46:35 GMT -5
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,900
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Post by Dub on Jun 6, 2023 14:57:30 GMT -5
That is very cool. It's interesting that when the interviewer calls attention to the score on the wall behind her, it's in the key of F.
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Post by howard lee on Jun 6, 2023 19:05:40 GMT -5
Sad. We keep losing all these great talents.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Jun 6, 2023 19:08:45 GMT -5
Loved, loved, loved her voice.
Mike
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Post by drlj on Jun 6, 2023 19:16:16 GMT -5
Sad to hear this.
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Post by millring on Jun 6, 2023 19:35:57 GMT -5
This might interest Terry and Russell. I thought it was pretty cool. Warning! Deep theory. Hey, that's the chick singer from Josh's "Waters of March" video.
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Post by james on Jun 6, 2023 20:06:33 GMT -5
Martina DaSilva.
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Post by millring on Jun 6, 2023 20:09:35 GMT -5
What a great presentation.
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Post by TKennedy on Jun 6, 2023 23:13:34 GMT -5
We did our regular wine bar gig tonight and a retired college trumpet professor sat in. Awesome player however on Ipanema while playing beautifully on the head he sat out on the bridge.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,900
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Post by Dub on Jun 18, 2023 22:56:15 GMT -5
Jimmy Bruno’s take.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jun 19, 2023 0:46:07 GMT -5
Ol' Jimmy is a handful. And it's fun to watch him re-figure the tune and make it musical in both keys. Makes me want to sit down and get those 9s and 11s right.
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Post by martinfever on Jun 19, 2023 9:49:40 GMT -5
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