Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,902 
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Post by Dub on Sept 2, 2023 14:52:43 GMT -5
My favorite way of tuning a stringed instrument is with a tuning fork. I find that by accurately tuning one string and then tuning the other strings using that as a reference, I can quickly achieve the most ear-pleasing result. Of course that is more difficult in a noisy environment where it’s harder to hear and takes more time. Out in public, the electronic tuners are much faster to get to an approximation but the result still needs to be fiddled with to sound right. I still keep a 440Hz fork in each instrument case but don’t use them as regularly as I did 50 years ago when there was no other way. At home, I have a Wittner tuning fork that is mounted on a resonator box. It sits on top of the piano in the parlor. These cost about 80 bucks. I’d like another one for my office/studio downstairs but I postpone the purchase because of the price. I’d really like Wittner’s larger 935440 model but that one is $150 after an $87 discount. So today I discover the tuner pictured below. (Click on the image for details.) I can buy two of these for a total of $20. A no-brainer, right? But one reviewer says his are slightly flat at 438Hz. It turns out these “tuners” are being sold as woo-woo medical devices to promote “healing” and a myriad of other non-tangible benefits. Imagine the envy of your friends and neighbors when they come into your home and there, sitting prominently on a shelf in your living room… (heh) My question is this. What is the practicality of tweaking these to achieve a dead accurate 440Hz tone. If they are flat, I assume the pitch can be raised by reducing the mass. Maybe filing down the tops of the tines. Other alterations might work as well. Do you think it’s worth the effort to tweak these just to save $130 on the Wittner fork? Thanks, in advance for your help.  |
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Post by Marty on Sept 2, 2023 15:17:38 GMT -5
Hell, for $20 get them and use your own fork.
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Post by dradtke on Sept 2, 2023 16:14:29 GMT -5
Can a tuning fork go bad?
A number of years ago our church held a get-together for guitar players of all levels, just for fun. There were some experienced players and some rank beginners, including some kids just starting out. Everyone had different methods of tuning; I had an electronic tuner, some people tuned to their piano and home, others tuned to the piano at church, some had a pitch-pipe. When we started playing we were all more-of-less in tune with each other.
Than a guy showed up late and his guitar was not in tune with everyone else's. He announced that he had a tuning fork, and a tuning fork could never be wrong, so we all had to re-tune to match his fork an' guitar.
Nobody argued, we all re-tuned. Nothing ever came of the group thing. And I never played with that guy. But I always wondered if his fork got bent or something and he didn't know it.
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Post by amanajoe on Sept 2, 2023 16:17:07 GMT -5
It’s not rocket surgery, taking mass off the ends of the tines raises the frequency, taking mass off the u-bend lowers it generally. If you don’t take the mass off equally, it can cause harmonics though so, using a file, gently swipe each end the same number of counts checking often.
Or, go with a Peterson tuner and stop messing around with tuning forks.
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Post by billhammond on Sept 2, 2023 16:31:48 GMT -5
In Sconnie, we always used tuning spoons, cuz you could use them for eating beer cheese soup.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,902
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Post by Dub on Sept 2, 2023 17:23:36 GMT -5
It’s not rocket surgery, taking mass off the ends of the tines raises the frequency, taking mass off the u-bend lowers it generally. If you don’t take the mass off equally, it can cause harmonics though so, using a file, gently swipe each end the same number of counts checking often. Or, go with a Peterson tuner and stop messing around with tuning forks. Thanks, Joe. I think I'll get them and see how it works out. I have a Peterson tuner and I like it very much. I also use the Peterson iPhone app with a clip and Lightning connector. But I'm so accustomed to listening to the Doppler "beat" effect that I can quickly and most accurately tune a string to the tone of a tuning fork. With the fork mounted on a resonator box, the fork's tone continues long enough to accurately tune the string. I use the same technique, listening for the beats, to tune the other strings to the first. |
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,902
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Post by Dub on Sept 2, 2023 17:39:54 GMT -5
Can a tuning fork go bad? A number of years ago our church held a get-together for guitar players of all levels, just for fun. There were some experienced players and some rank beginners, including some kids just starting out. Everyone had different methods of tuning; I had an electronic tuner, some people tuned to their piano and home, others tuned to the piano at church, some had a pitch-pipe. When we started playing we were all more-of-less in tune with each other. Than a guy showed up late and his guitar was not in tune with everyone else's. He announced that he had a tuning fork, and a tuning fork could never be wrong, so we all had to re-tune to match his fork an' guitar. Nobody argued, we all re-tuned. Nothing ever came of the group thing. And I never played with that guy. But I always wondered if his fork got bent or something and he didn't know it. Ha! Made me laugh. Church pianos seem rarely to be in tune. The same with home pianos. And the chances that two pianos in separate locations would be out of tune, in the same way, are miniscule. Likewise, pitch-pipes are rarely accurate. They are useful for choir directors to toot a starting note for an a cappella choir as long there's no organ to compete with. I remember many decades ago responding to a band looking for a guitar player. When I arrived at their rehearsal they were already working. Rather than interrupt, I quietly took out my guitar and tuned using my 440Hz tuning fork. When they paused and we introduced ourselves they insisted that I tune my guitar to an electronic tuner they had that was the size of an old table-model radio. Electronic tuning was a new thing and I'd never seen one. I explained that I'd already tuned but they seemed certain I couldn't possibly be as accurately tuned as they were and insisted that I check my guitar against their tuner. To my relief and their surprise, every string exactly satisfied their tuner. I don't remember how the session went but I never heard from them again. |
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Post by drlj on Sept 2, 2023 19:42:50 GMT -5
I used to tune using a tuning fork and still do occasionally but I got lazy and use a clip on tuner most of the time. Of course, a tuner is only as good as its battery.
I use a Peterson StrobeClip mostly and then I check the guitar by using harmonics.
Sometimes I use a Boss tu-01.
I am going to check out the Wittner you mentioned. I love stuff like that.
When I was young and hanging around Old Town whenever I got the chance way back in the last century, a guy whose name I have long ago forgotten, showed me a tuning fork trick. He would strike the fork and then hold it between his teeth instead of touching it to the guitar top. It turns your entire head into a resonating chamber. It isn’t the most sanitary method if you plan on sharing the tuning fork, but it does work. It was freaky enough to really appeal to me at the time.😵💫😵💫 As I recall, it was loud, too. Maybe toking up helped back then.
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Post by RickW on Sept 2, 2023 19:54:19 GMT -5
“Go not to the engineers for advice, for they will say both yes and no….”  |
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Post by drlj on Sept 2, 2023 19:55:49 GMT -5
Best advice an engineer ever gave me was slow down on the curves or the train might jump the track.
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Post by james on Sept 2, 2023 20:09:51 GMT -5
Still my all time favourite tuner and the love of my life is the TC Electronics Unitune. It is a really great, clear display, accurate, fast and sensitive little tuner. (It has a strobe setting but I find it unnecessary).
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,902
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Post by Dub on Sept 2, 2023 20:11:56 GMT -5
I used to tune using a tuning fork and still do occasionally but I got lazy and use a clip on tuner most of the time. Of course, a tuner is only as good as its battery. I use a Peterson StrobeClip mostly and then I check the guitar by using harmonics. Sometimes I use a Boss tu-01. I am going to check out the Wittner you mentioned. I love stuff like that. When I was young and hanging around Old Town whenever I got the chance way back in the last century, a guy whose name I have long ago forgotten, showed me a tuning fork trick. He would strike the fork and then hold it between his teeth instead of touching it to the guitar top. It turns your entire head into a resonating chamber. It isn’t the most sanitary method if you plan on sharing the tuning fork, but it does work. It was freaky enough to really appeal to me at the time.😵💫😵💫 As I recall, it was loud, too. Maybe toking up helped back then. That was probably me. I've been using that trick, tuning fork between teeth, for more than 50 years. I don't remember meeting anyone else who did that. It just dawned on me one day that the skull was probably a better sound conductor than air and my eardrum. If you're using one hand to hold the fork against your instrument, you still need two more hands to pluck and tune the string. The Wittner fork on the resonator box is great. I put on a thumb pick, pick up the little mallet, and strike the fork. Then without having to put down the mallet, I can sound and tune the string. The fork's tone lasts long enough to accurately tune the string. |
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 19,902
|
Post by Dub on Sept 2, 2023 20:15:07 GMT -5
Still my all time favourite tuner and the love of my life is the TC Electronics Unitune. It is a really great, clear display, accurate, fast and sensitive little tuner. (It has a strobe setting but I find it unnecessary). Looks cool. www.tcelectronic.com/product.html?modelCode=P0DAW |
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Post by John B on Sept 2, 2023 20:44:51 GMT -5
I used to tune using a tuning fork and still do occasionally but I got lazy and use a clip on tuner most of the time. Of course, a tuner is only as good as its battery. I use a Peterson StrobeClip mostly and then I check the guitar by using harmonics. Sometimes I use a Boss tu-01. I am going to check out the Wittner you mentioned. I love stuff like that. When I was young and hanging around Old Town whenever I got the chance way back in the last century, a guy whose name I have long ago forgotten, showed me a tuning fork trick. He would strike the fork and then hold it between his teeth instead of touching it to the guitar top. It turns your entire head into a resonating chamber. It isn’t the most sanitary method if you plan on sharing the tuning fork, but it does work. It was freaky enough to really appeal to me at the time.😵💫😵💫 As I recall, it was loud, too. Maybe toking up helped back then. Mine resides on the back of the piano, next to the Wittner metronome that everyone who has played with me knows I've never used.  |
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Sept 2, 2023 20:47:28 GMT -5
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Post by drlj on Sept 2, 2023 21:21:10 GMT -5
I used to tune using a tuning fork and still do occasionally but I got lazy and use a clip on tuner most of the time. Of course, a tuner is only as good as its battery. I use a Peterson StrobeClip mostly and then I check the guitar by using harmonics. Sometimes I use a Boss tu-01. I am going to check out the Wittner you mentioned. I love stuff like that. When I was young and hanging around Old Town whenever I got the chance way back in the last century, a guy whose name I have long ago forgotten, showed me a tuning fork trick. He would strike the fork and then hold it between his teeth instead of touching it to the guitar top. It turns your entire head into a resonating chamber. It isn’t the most sanitary method if you plan on sharing the tuning fork, but it does work. It was freaky enough to really appeal to me at the time.😵💫😵💫 As I recall, it was loud, too. Maybe toking up helped back then. That was probably me. I've been using that trick, tuning fork between teeth, for more than 50 years. I don't remember meeting anyone else who did that. It just dawned on me one day that the skull was probably a better sound conductor than air and my eardrum. If you're using one hand to hold the fork against your instrument, you still need two more hands to pluck and tune the string. The Wittner fork on the resonator box is great. I put on a thumb pick, pick up the little mallet, and strike the fork. Then without having to put down the mallet, I can sound and tune the string. The fork's tone lasts long enough to accurately tune the string. Who knows? Maybe it was you. I have been doing that ever since & I never came across anyone else who did it. Maybe we crossed paths long ago before we knew each other.😊 |
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Post by aquaduct on Sept 2, 2023 21:32:59 GMT -5
I tune according to what's available at the moment. Someone in charge plays a note (like what's typical in a Big Band) and I'll tune to that filling the rest of the strings out with the 5th and 7th fret harmonics variation of Dub's "pulse" oscillation method. Also works when backing a bunch of fiddles.
But my preference if I'm actually in charge (or my wife is) is to use electronic tuners like the aforemention Boss unit or the one in my TC Electronics pedal board. This has 2 main advantages. First, the amp is muted so the audience here's nothing. And second, it lets you cheat a few cents one way or another if necessary. The interval between the G string and the B is famous for often sounding out of tune even when in tune. It's a wierd property of just intonation like on a guitar. Everything is fudged just slightly to accomodate things like horns. So when you're in tune, you really aren't. With Christal and her ear there were always about 3 songs that didn't sound quite right if I was in tune the normal way. So a good electronic chromatic tuner always let me tweak the B up a mark or so to get it in tune.
But I've only really ever played with one person who could distinguish that. And I'm married to her so getting it right was crucial to being allowed to sleep inside that night.
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Post by millring on Sept 2, 2023 21:51:07 GMT -5
Well, there's about five more people I'd prolly better never play in front of.  |
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Post by RickW on Sept 2, 2023 23:13:19 GMT -5
Still my all time favourite tuner and the love of my life is the TC Electronics Unitune. It is a really great, clear display, accurate, fast and sensitive little tuner. (It has a strobe setting but I find it unnecessary). By buddy has one of those, amongst a collection of others, but that’s his favourite. Nice little tuner. |
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Post by Marshall on Sept 3, 2023 7:55:21 GMT -5
Ha! Made me laugh. Church pianos seem rarely to be in tune. The same with home pianos. [/quote] When Intellitouch tuners first came out there was a function where you could tune the tuner to another signal. I decided to try to match the church piano. It turned out to be 438. . . . , except the piano was not in tune with itself, so every A was different. And every E was different. Just went back to tuning to the tuner @ A=440. |
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