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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 11, 2023 18:07:18 GMT -5
In a fit of optimism or adventurousness or something, I ordered a set of what turned out to be Allparts ebony buttons for the Schaller tuners on my 1997 Goodall, to replace the clown-vomit plastic items that seem to be wearing out. (One split and is not repairable.)
They finally arrived, and I am less than satisfied. For starters, they only kinda fit--there's wiggle room in them, which suggests to me that eventually they will wear and become useless. I also noticed that the screws are just a bit longer than those on the stock tuners, which are too short to engage the threads on the tuner shaft.
I had already replaced the broken clown-vomit button with one of the originals (thoughtfully provided by Bill when he sold me the guitar), so I got out another original and put that on the high E, which had been my lab-rat tuner with the Allparts button/screw combo. And now that tuner refuses to work at all--I can't turn it by hand, and I'm very reluctant to resort to a pair of pliers.
WTF is going on? The Schallers seem to be completely sealed--at least I don't see a way of disassembling one. Could the longer Allparts screw have pushed into the innards of the tuner and done some damage? (Hard to imagine--there's a lot of shaft between the button mounting and the cylindrical body of the tuner.)
I suppose the brute-force solution is to replace the non-functioning tuner--I think that configuration (with the mounting screws in line with the button shaft) is still available. I think Schaller calls that the 180-degree model.
Unless, of course, there's a drop-in Gotoh model. . . .
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Oct 11, 2023 18:41:19 GMT -5
Clown vomit and Goodall guitars do not seem to go together.
Mike
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 11, 2023 18:54:17 GMT -5
The clown-vomit buttons were the doing of a previous-to-Bill owner, and while they would not have been my choice, I kinda came to like them. Until one deconstructed itself at IJam, rendering the guitar unusable for that weekend. (I suppose now my traveling maintenance kit will include a set of spare buttons.) I was hoping that the Allparts ebony buttons would work--they weren't all that cheaper than genuine Schallers, but the Stew-Mac packing-and-postage charge of $12+ kinda got up my nose.
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Post by billhammond on Oct 11, 2023 19:42:28 GMT -5
The clown-vomit buttons were the doing of a previous-to-Bill owner, and while they would not have been my choice, I kinda came to like them. Until one deconstructed itself at IJam, rendering the guitar unusable for that weekend. (I suppose now my traveling maintenance kit will include a set of spare buttons.) I was hoping that the Allparts ebony buttons would work--they weren't all that cheaper than genuine Schallers, but the Stew-Mac packing-and-postage charge of $12+ kinda got up my nose. Marshall can correct me on this, but my recollection is that when I bought the Goodall RS from buddy Jeff McManus, it had the standard tuner knobs. Then Marshall bought a similar guitar and added Leach knobs to the tuners that I kinda liked, so I ordered and added a set to my RS. |
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Post by Marty on Oct 11, 2023 19:44:01 GMT -5
Time to make a trip to St. Paul.
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 11, 2023 19:56:51 GMT -5
Bill--I don't think your temporary lapse of aesthetic judgment had anything to do with the tuner's mechanical problem--unless aesthetics can leak into the gears somehow. And in any case, as I said, I formed an affection for the weird little buggers.
Marty--I'll have to see what's on the calendar. C. has a dental appointment tomorrow, but Friday or Saturday could be open. Assuming your schedule permits.
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Post by Marty on Oct 11, 2023 21:47:14 GMT -5
Yes it does.
I'll probably have a set of something that fits.
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Post by Marshall on Oct 12, 2023 8:27:23 GMT -5
The clown-vomit buttons were the doing of a previous-to-Bill owner, and while they would not have been my choice, I kinda came to like them. Until one deconstructed itself at IJam, rendering the guitar unusable for that weekend. (I suppose now my traveling maintenance kit will include a set of spare buttons.) I was hoping that the Allparts ebony buttons would work--they weren't all that cheaper than genuine Schallers, but the Stew-Mac packing-and-postage charge of $12+ kinda got up my nose. Marshall can correct me on this, but my recollection is that when I bought the Goodall RS from buddy Jeff McManus, it had the standard tuner knobs. Then Marshall bought a similar guitar and added Leach knobs to the tuners that I kinda liked, so I ordered and added a set to my RS. Yeah. I'm the one responsible. I bought some Harvey Leach abalone tuner knobs for my 1996 Goodall. I coerced Bill into doing the same. I may still have the tuner knobs in a drawer somewhere. If I can find them, they're yours. |
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 12, 2023 11:52:51 GMT -5
Stranger and stranger. I was re-rechecking the fit of the replacement buttons and trying to unstick the tuner when the worm-gear shaft pushed through the other side of the body and fell out. So I took the whole assembly off the guitar and peered inside the hole--I can see the gear but no way to reinsert the worm gear. And of course the plate seal shows no sign of being removable. I'm guessing that the tuners are assembled by placing the worm gear first and then dropping the gear onto it and matching the teeth before sealing the whole thing.
What I can't figure out is how the worm shaft got backed off from the peg gear to begin with. Am I missing something about the internal structure? Is there a part that has gone missing?
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Oct 12, 2023 12:44:12 GMT -5
We’re it up to me, I’d replace them all with Waverlys.
Mike
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Post by John B on Oct 12, 2023 12:51:22 GMT -5
Stranger and stranger. I was re-rechecking the fit of the replacement buttons and trying to unstick the tuner when the worm-gear shaft pushed through the other side of the body and fell out. So I took the whole assembly off the guitar and peered inside the hole--I can see the gear but no way to reinsert the worm gear. And of course the plate seal shows no sign of being removable. I'm guessing that the tuners are assembled by placing the worm gear first and then dropping the gear onto it and matching the teeth before sealing the whole thing. What I can't figure out is how the worm shaft got backed off from the peg gear to begin with. Am I missing something about the internal structure? Is there a part that has gone missing? Pretty sure the removal of the worm-gear shaft exposed a worm hole. Be very, very careful, or C might find you unfindable. |
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Post by Marty on Oct 12, 2023 13:15:32 GMT -5
Stranger and stranger. I was re-rechecking the fit of the replacement buttons and trying to unstick the tuner when the worm-gear shaft pushed through the other side of the body and fell out. So I took the whole assembly off the guitar and peered inside the hole--I can see the gear but no way to reinsert the worm gear. And of course the plate seal shows no sign of being removable. I'm guessing that the tuners are assembled by placing the worm gear first and then dropping the gear onto it and matching the teeth before sealing the whole thing. What I can't figure out is how the worm shaft got backed off from the peg gear to begin with. Am I missing something about the internal structure? Is there a part that has gone missing? Be careful as there are several nylon washers on the worm shaft that you don't want to lose. It might be possible to pop the back cap off by inserting a tool onto the worm shaft hole but I've never tried it. The gear on the string shaft is held in place by a screw and you cannot get to that screw with the back cap on. |
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 12, 2023 13:16:04 GMT -5
Mike--Aside from the expense, I'm hoping for a drop-in replacement. (Assuming the original tuner isn't repairable.)
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 12, 2023 13:18:20 GMT -5
Re: nylon washers. Too late--there wasn't one on the E string when I removed the button, though there is a metal washer.
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Post by drlj on Oct 12, 2023 13:57:57 GMT -5
Re: nylon washers. Too late--there wasn't one on the E string when I removed the button, though there is a metal washer. Those things break and drop off. I have a little bag with 15 or 20 of them in it just so I can replace them when it happens. The back cap will come off and then it snaps back in place. I saw a repairman use a small screwdriver to push the cap off from the inside. I did that on a gear on my old Mossman so I could lube it because it was sticky and hard to turn. That was many years ago and it’s been fine ever since. |
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Post by Marshall on Oct 12, 2023 14:17:03 GMT -5
For worm hole problems I recommend Ivermectin. It'll take care of COVID too.
(Or was that bleach?)
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Post by Marty on Oct 12, 2023 14:32:46 GMT -5
Re: nylon washers. Too late--there wasn't one on the E string when I removed the button, though there is a metal washer. There are also washers inside if you pull the worm gear out. |
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Post by Marty on Oct 12, 2023 14:35:25 GMT -5
Re: nylon washers. Too late--there wasn't one on the E string when I removed the button, though there is a metal washer. Those things break and drop off. I have a little bag with 15 or 20 of them in it just so I can replace them when it happens. The back cap will come off and then it snaps back in place. I saw a repairman use a small screwdriver to push the cap off from the inside. I did that on a gear on my old Mossman so I could lube it because it was sticky and hard to turn. That was many years ago and it’s been fine ever since. Not all sealed tuners will allow you to pull out the worm shaft and pop off the cap. When I tear a broken one apart for repairing another I'll often just drill a small hole in the cap and pry it off. |
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Post by Marty on Oct 13, 2023 14:52:23 GMT -5
Russell just left with a working set of tuners on the Goodall.
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Post by John B on Oct 13, 2023 16:48:11 GMT -5
Fender Klusons, 6-on-a-side?
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