A Brief Political Timeout.

[patrick]

I'm somewhere in the middle on this one.

I agree that I think any of the three last candidates (Obama, Clinton, McCain) would make at least competent Presidents, at least compared to Boy George. But then, PeeWee Herman would be competent compared to Boy George.

But McCain has reversed himself on everything about him that I respected. He is probably the only presidential candidate in history to be actively running against two pieces of legislation with his name on them, the McCain-Feingold finance reform act (which he also is violating in this campaign) and the McCain-Kennedy Immigration Reform Act, which is the basis for the immigration act that finally got passed into law.

In 2000, he was pro-choice, now he wants to overturn Roe v Wade. WTF?

In 2000 he denounced Falwell et al. as "agents of intolerance," now he panders to outright lunatics and racists like Hagee and Parsley. WTF?

In 2001 he denounced Bush's tax cuts as giveaways to the rich that would do nothing for the economy, now he supports them. WTF?

Please name a CURRENT position he holds that is in conflict with the GOP.

McCain is running on the past, not the present or the future.

[timfarney]

"Woof! Woof!"

"Good boy. Roll over and Reverend Righteous will rub your tummy."

Tim

[epaul]

My mother told me, never judge a man during a campaign. Or was it Doug. Whoever. It is true. I still clearly recall all the things I did to try get Mary Halvorson to go out with me in high school. I changed everything I could think of changing just to please her. Didn't mean I was weak or duplicitous, just horny and desperate. Deep down, where it counts, I was still the same weasel I was before I set out to woo and win her.

Democrats, of course there will be loads of good reasons why you prefer Obama and lots of good reasons why you think McCain should be kept out of the White House. Grass is green and the sky is blue. I know that. And the vice is versa for Republicans. Of course there are ten thousand very important reasons that McCain should win the ring.

For either side, lots of reasons to want your guy and not want the other. But that isn't the point I wished to make in this thread (that is the point of all the other threads). The point here is, indisputably, that prior to this campaign and all the double talk B.S. any campaign entails, McCain was one of the Democrats favorite Republicans. And of all the Republicans with a ghost of a chance of getting the nomination, he was our very clear favorite by a country mile. In our eyes, he has been a prince amongst paupers for the last ten years or so. Of course all that is forgotten during a campaign of name calling and the doing of stuff that must be done, but really, we shouldn't forget completely.

And, to repeat, it is the same, even if quite different, for Republicans. Of course you don't care a whole lot for Democratic candidates, but of all the Democratic candidates that have been offered up lately, you got to admit, deep down, that Obama is the most intriguing and interesting one. And he did drive a stake in Hillary for you (and face it, Hillary would have won this election in a cakewalk.)

Yes, of course, the two candidates are very, very different, outside of both being criminals and murderers, that is. (you owe me, Doug). But we should, even in the angriest or most disgusting moments of the campaign (which are the two emotions campaigns are best suited to emote), we should remember, hold fast to, the thought that we have certainly come up with worse choices, and not very often at all, better choices.

[timfarney]

My mother told me, never judge a man during a campaign.

And I will not question the wisdom of your mother, epaul. But McCain's (and yes, he was my favorite Republican, too) seasonal turnaround has been particularly dramatic. He has basically flipped on everything that ever made him his own man, someone who could not be counted on to pass the litmus test, our favorite Republican. Everything. No need to list them.

And there's one that he flipped on long before the campaign and has held onto like a bulldog on my cuff (Sit boy, sit. No, no, stop licking my shoe, it's gross...): Iraq. Not only did he flip on his opposition, he flipped like the international house of pancakes' early bird special. He didn't even wait for boots on the ground, which I would have understood. He voted authorization, knowing full well that it was wrong. Now, years later, he holds to that position in the face of all the evidence against it, in spite of the fact that he opposed the misadventure himself until his political cowardice got the best of him.

Barak Obama is called dangerous because he says he would cross over into Pakistan to get Bin Laden. McCain gets that little squint of his and squeezes out that insincere little imitation of rage and says he'll follow Bin Laden to the gates of hell, which I think is actually in Pakistan, though I'm not sure. He isn't just the last man standing who still thinks we should hang out, as long as it takes, until we find something we can call victory (as opposed to giving Iraq back to the Iraqis at their direct request), he is a little hawk who has given us every reason to believe he would repeat this tragic blunder in Iran or elsewhere. Maybe that's just campaign rhetoric, but the risk is too great to take that chance. I think, instead, I'll take him at his word on this one. Mitt Romney, little more than a haircut, would be safer. He wouldn't do anything that bad for business.

Tim

[jdd]

Back the the supreme court and the congressional elections. Court nominees are one significant worry, and I can understand that with Dems in control over there that McCain will not succeed in a make-over of the court.

But with all the talk about the prez and vp picks recently, I guess I haven't read much about just how the house and senate races are shaping up. The presumption of course is that the dems will pick up seats, and at one point or another (not recently) it seemed like they had a good chance to pick up a lot.

But how's it look now, with the conventions over, and the candidates and their vp choices now affecting people's attitudes? I guess I've missed the scoreboards on how house and senate races might be going.

The more dem that congress seems to be going, the less I'd mind McCain, and the idea of Palin possibly taking over from McCain. The less so, the more I'd be concerned.

Obama, as a constitutional law person... I'd expect him to pick someone liberal, but not an off-the-meter liberal. I'd guess that he'd pick someone that he (and his vetters) thought was good, and that he'd be (far) less likely to be throwing cookies and thank-you charms to one of his supposed constituencies.

[timfarney]

McCain doesn't have to accomplish much with the Supremes to threaten Roe v Wade, if that means much to you. Will he keep his promise to the extremes to overturn Roe with the Supremes? Who can be sure? If the opportunity comes in a first term, he might do it just to keep the extremes with him, or his surrogate, through re-election. Speaking of surrogates, there's another concern for you: McCain is 72 years old. He may not be able to run for a second term. Who is next in line? A winning McCain/Palin ticket could position the badly damaged GOP for a quick comeback from a position further to the right than we can imagine, and personally, I think they need to lick their wounds for at least a decade, and come back closer to the center.

But the biggest reason to be scared of this snarling lap dog is in my last post. Yeah, Congress is supposed to declare our wars for us. When was the last time that happened? Even the Bushies went to them for "authorization" to invade Iraq, but they didn't need to, could've, would've done it without them. Besides, all it takes to get them on your side is the threat of winning and making them look bad.

I don't care how many seats the Dems win. An old, pissed-off Bull Terrier like McCain could seriously screw up the world from the CIC's seat. And nothing short of a coup could stop him. Just look at the last 8 years.

Tim

[guitone]

McCain scares me, I just don't trust the man, but politics and trust may just be an oxymoron. Now Palin, the little I know, well, she scares me more.

I like Obama, not sure what he can or will do but I like him and i like the way he handles himself. I was not a Hillary fan and I am glad she is not on the ticket in any way. I still worry that this country will find a reason to not vote for a black man.

[Cornflake]

I posted something that belongs in another thread. Forgot what this one was about. Digression deleted.

[timfarney]

I still worry that this country will find a reason to not vote for a black man.

So do I.

Tim

[Village Idiot]

Where's the ducking hurled vegetables emoticon when I need it?






(Because this was a joke, folks)

[Cornflake]

That's terrible. But very funny.

[Deleted]

Yeah... I recall being chastised for posting a picture of a terrorist with the caption "America please vote Democrat". I think the word most used describing my action was "hateful".


"I have squandered my resistance,
For a pocketful of mumbles, such are promises.
All lies and jest.
Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."