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Post by brucemacneill on Sept 13, 2010 19:24:37 GMT -5
I've been trying to write my first song, yeah I know I'm 62 but you have to start sometime. It's a sea tale, based in fact. In the winter of 1871-72 22 ships from the Whale fleet were stranded in Alaska. Only one ever sailed again. According to my grandfather, and he was 85 and I was 6 at the time, it took his father 4 years to work his way back home from "The Lost Fleet". The song which I'm calling "Dear Sarah", Sarah being my great grandmother, or maybe "Bound back for New Bedford" can be found at www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d-eE7PJLJw . I'm open to comments and suggestions. I'm not much of a video editor either and I'm still tripping over some of my lyrics. So this is a rough test version.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2010 20:49:56 GMT -5
Nice work Bruce! I thought it might have been a touch long or maybe not, but it certainly is a sea ditty and of course you play it well. That's a lot of lyrics too for your first song, so really well done. If you don't mind, can you post them? The one thing I think would really make the song complete is a nice instrumental in a quicker tempo at the end like an old English song like Fairport Convention would play. Something like Matty Groves. That would add a little more meat to the song too and gives the listener something to look forward to with repeated listens.
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Post by brucemacneill on Sept 14, 2010 5:13:35 GMT -5
Interesting. The comments I've had so far are "Maybe it's too long, you should add an instrumental between verses or somewhere". That would make it longer and I was trying to get under the length of "The Edmund Fitzgerald". Here's the last set of lyrics I wrote down but they seem to change every time I try to sing it:
Dear Sarah,
Received your letter yesterday, it sailed almost a year I'll send a dozen back to you and hope one makes it Dear. I'm glad to hear I have a son, you named him after me but if he has a lick of sense he'll never go to sea. We sailed to the Pacific and we packed on oil and bone Off loaded in the islands, was too soon to head back home We sailed up to Alaska but man's greed can be a vice We stayed too long in winter and got stranded in the ice The ship was stove and sinking and we had to leave her there I didn't lose a single man but left with naught to spare. My instruments and Bowditch book I have here in a sack I have a little money and the clothes upon my back I'll have to find a ship bound south and take what work I can No need to be a captain now I'll work like any man I'm bound back for New Bedford, Dear I'm coming home to you but getting to New Bedford just might take a year or two
My name is John My Last name's Paun Was Captain of a whaler but if your ship's bound south of here I'd gladly be a sailor
Dear Sarah, I got to California on a Bark was hauling wood Smells better than a whale ship and at least the winds were good I worked upon a clipper ship, a pretty sight to see She got me down to Mexico all loaded up with tea I fished aboard a Tuna boat since it was going south She got me down to Panama but then my luck ran out. So I packed across the jungle and made it to a bay I've found a Brig that's sailing east, they're heading out today I'm bound back for New Bedford, Dear, I'm coming home to you but getting to New Bedford just might take a month or two
My name is John My Last name's Paun Was Captain of a whaler but if your ship's bound east of here I'd gladly be a sailor
Dear Sarah, Was beached down here in Cuba couldn't find a ship bound north Was working as a carpenter in months, this was the fourth But I heard of a coastal freighter, and she's heading for the States If I can get a berth I'll go whatever work it takes I've made it up to Norfolk I could walk the miles from here I'll catch a ship that's going north and see you shortly, Dear. Been 30 years upon the sea it's always been my life through all those years and trials, Dear, you've been a perfect wife Start packing up the household, Dear,you'll soon be seeing me We're moving to my father's farm, no more to go to sea I'm bound back for New Bedford, Dear,I'm coming home to you but getting to New Bedford just might take a week or two
My name is John My Last name's Paun Was Captain of a whaler but if your ship's bound north of here I'll like to be a sailor
Now you know, This song is from the stories that my grampa told to me of how it was his father had abandoned life at sea and why I grew up on a farm without a sail in sight and how a man could steer a ship by using stars at night I've been down to New Bedford my great-grampa's life to find I've sailed around the horn with him if only in my mind Today I know that good men don't hunt whales upon the sea I'm still proud of all the tales my grampa told to me.
His name was John His last name Paun Was Captain of a whaler but any ship would get him home he'd sign on as a sailor for Dear Sarah.
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Post by Hobson on Jul 14, 2011 15:12:42 GMT -5
So Bruce, what happened to this song? Did you ever finish it? I don't usually hang around the songwriting part of this or other forums, but am starting to get interested.
I thought this was really good and hope that you haven't given up on it.
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Post by brucemacneill on Jul 14, 2011 15:26:04 GMT -5
So Bruce, what happened to this song? Did you ever finish it? I don't usually hang around the songwriting part of this or other forums, but am starting to get interested. I thought this was really good and hope that you haven't given up on it. I haven't given up on it but I'd like to shorten it a little and there are a couple of lines I'd change if I could work in the new ones I thought up. It rolls around in my head but I can't seem to make it any better, yet. Thanks for asking.
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Post by Lonnie on Jul 14, 2011 15:29:36 GMT -5
For a first effort that's pretty amazing!
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Post by brucemacneill on Jul 14, 2011 15:32:37 GMT -5
For a first effort that's pretty amazing! Thanks, and thanks for the subscription too. I still just consider myself a hack but I've really only been trying this music thing for a couple of years. It's a left over dream of youth now that I'm old enough and retired to put some time into it.
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Post by Lonnie on Jul 14, 2011 15:42:27 GMT -5
I've really only been trying this music thing for a couple of years. It's a left over dream of youth now that I'm old enough and retired to put some time into it. Think about it this way... All the teen stars and youngster players who are getting filthy rich (and I can't stand most of them) have by necessity "only been at this music thing for a couple of years." The difference is that you're bringing a lifetime of human experience to the table. Don't let the lack of years at the craft itself stop you, by my reckoning you're in a better place to create than some kid who has never experienced any of the life he or she tries to write about. Plus, I guarantee you have a better vocabulary!
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Post by brucemacneill on Jul 17, 2011 6:55:30 GMT -5
If anyone wants to comment, this is where I am with the lyrics now, I'm not inventive enough to come up with a better tune:
This song is from a story that my Grampa told to me When I was just a boy of 6 and he was 83 'bout how his father went to sea the Captain's share to earn and how his mother waited six long years for his return.
My name is John My Last name's Paun Was Captain of a whaler but if your ship's bound south of here I'd gladly be a sailor
Dear Sarah,
Received your letter yesterday, it sailed for most a year I'll write a dozen back to you and hope one makes it there. I'm glad to hear I have a son, you named him after me but if he has a lick of sense he'll never go to sea. We sailed to the Pacific and we packed on oil and bone Off loaded in the islands, was too soon to go back home So we sailed up to Alaska but man's greed can be a vice We stayed too long in winter and got stranded in the ice The ship was stove and sinking and we had to leave her there I didn't lose a single man but left with naught to spare. My instruments and Bowditch book I have here in a sack I have a little money and the clothes upon my back I'll have to find a ship bound south and take what work I can No need to be a captain now I'll work like any man I'm bound back for New Bedford, Dear I'm coming home to you but getting to New Bedford just might take a year or two
My name is John My Last name's Paun Was Captain of a whaler but if your ship's bound south of here I'd ask be a sailor
Dear Sarah,
Got down to California on a Bark was hauling wood Smelled better than a whale ship and at least the winds were good Then I worked upon a clipper ship, a pretty sight to see She got me down to Mexico all loaded up with tea I fished aboard a Tuna boat since it was going south She got me down to Panama but then my luck ran out. So I've packed across the jungle and I've made it to a bay I've found a Brig that's heading east, she's sailing out today I'm bound back for New Bedford, Dear, I'm coming home to you but getting to New Bedford just might take a month or two
My name is John My Last name's Paun Was Captain of a whaler but if your ship's bound east of here I'd wish to be a sailor
Dear Sarah,
Was beached way down in Cuba couldn't find a ship bound north Was working as a carpenter in months, this was the fourth But I found of a coastal freighter that was heading for the States If I could get a berth I'll go whatever work it takes I've made it up to Norfolk I could walk the miles from here There's lots of ships here heading north I'll see you shortly, Dear. Been 30 years upon the sea it's always been my life through all those years and trials, Dear, you've been a perfect wife Start packing up the household, Dear,you'll soon be seeing me We're moving to my father's farm, no more to go to sea I'm bound back for New Bedford, Dear,I'm coming home to you but getting to New Bedford just might take a week or two
So, this song is from the stories that my grampa told to me of how it was his father had abandoned life at sea and why I grew up on a farm without a sail in sight and how a man could steer a ship by using stars at night I've been down to New Bedford my great-grampa's life to find I've sailed around the horn with him if only in my mind and now I know that good men don't go hunting whales at sea but still I can't forget the tales my grampa told to me.
His name was John His last name Paun Was Captain of a whaler but any ship would get him home he'd sign on as a sailor for Dear Sarah.
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Post by Hobson on Jul 17, 2011 15:53:15 GMT -5
I think the lyrics are great and certainly something that nobody else could have written. And there's nothing wrong with the tune. It fits the story.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2011 13:25:37 GMT -5
For a first try, that's pretty good storytelling. I'll not do a line-by-line review since A) I don't know that you asked for one and B) I'm no smarter than anyone else here. But a couple of observations:
1) Sea shanties are supposed to be long. That's the law. But while they may be long, they generally tell one story, and this song tells several stories. Or at least one over-arching story with several mini-stories in it. If you were going to do some editing and/or re-arranging, I'd keep that in mind. Whittle down the number of stories you're telling. Yes, it is quite a saga. But you're asking a favor of the listener, so give the listener a break. Even with some whittling, it is still a hell of a story. And you can use what you take out in your next song.
2) I worry about the wordiness of the chorus. How about something like:
My name is John, last name of Paun I was captain of a whaler but if your ship's bound east of here I'd wish to be a sailor
What was his middle name? If his middle name had enough syllables, I'd almost rather see you sing "My name is John (middle name here) Paun/I was captain of a whaler...." because the "my name is..." and "my last name's..." just seems too jumpy or too stop-and-starty.
3) I'm undecided about the ending. While I can see why he'd want to give up the seafaring life -- and why that makes sense in the song -- I almost think you go into too much detail about it. It's ok to tease us. Don't tell us. Show us. You might be able to shorten it some by hinting at that and moving the bit about how his son won't go to sea if he has a lick of sense to the end of the song. Or have a verse about your grandfather (since I take it he was the infant son that your great-grandfather didn't want to go to sea) or something along those lines.
Of course it is easy for someone to re-write somebody else's song. And I hope you won't take offense at anything I've written. Editing is perhaps the most important part of songwriting. There are songs I've written that I've re-written lots of times before I finally felt it was "right" and even then, "right" is very subjective.
But this is a hell of a story and could be a classic. Fine work.
And, lastly, please keep in mind all the above comments are only one man's opinion and you can take them or leave them and I am certainly not offended if you leave them.
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Post by brucemacneill on Jul 18, 2011 14:37:59 GMT -5
No offense taken. I agree it runs long, just a little shorter than "The Edmund Fitzgerald". The captain was "John Henry Paun" and my grandfather, who told me the story, was "John Gilbert Paun". Whaling expeditions were scheduled for 4 years but they were 2 years out when they got stranded in Alaska and it took the captain 4 years to work his way home ship by ship as he could find work. Fortunately for him he had originally gone to sea at 13 as a ship's carpenter and cooper, (barrel maker) and he could find work. The earliest he shows up in history as a captain he would have been 24, which isn't a bad promotion rate really. I wrote this as letters home over time. You got the sense of the thing.
FYI, not material to the song, John Henry's father was given the name "John Paun" as an orphan rescued along with another small boy, who was given the name "Gilbert Paun". They were rescued from a lifeboat in 1793 a couple of hundred miles off New Bedford. They spoke no English but maybe French, the only word they said was maybe "pain", which would be French for bread, asking for bread? Pain became "Paun" as a last name. As far as I know, the John and Gilbert were random. John Paun became a cooper, which is where John Henry learned the skill. When John Paun left the sea, he bought a farm 15 miles inland. I grew up in John Paun's house. John Henry's house was across the street and John Gilbert's house was next door to our house. Maybe there's another song in there somewhere.
Thanks for looking anyway. I'm still working on it.
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Post by Marshall on Jul 20, 2011 23:45:58 GMT -5
Quite good, Bruce. The historical narrative. You probably should listen to Hanners. He's more experienced than me in that. Here's what I feel about the genre, though.
Any narrative has to have something in it for the listener. In the last verse you say, "You ask me why I tell this tale" (or something like that). I think it's too late to explain the song. In fact no song should need to be explained. It should stand on it's own. And it should have something in it for the listener; some lesson to be learned; some point to be made. There, but for the grace of God go I. The power of love through adversity. There's no place like home. . . . , all sorts of possibilities come to mind when hearing a historical narrative.
But I think it needs a little more purpose if you want the audience to be more than Sarah. In fact even Sarah might start thinking why'd this guy spend so much time away from home? I'm missing the motivation and the longing that separation brings. I want to feel the angst. Maybe just a tweak in your chorus to display longing for home might do the trick. The "My name is John" is just stating the facts. It's not giving a clue to what emotions John feels.
But of course, what do I know?
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Post by Marshall on Jul 20, 2011 23:59:33 GMT -5
Here's another thing we all do; We can get wrapped up in the details of our story and want to make sure we include all the juicy details that we know. But a song is a simple thing. It's not a story. it's just a snippet of a story. it lives separately from the story. By that I mean, we (me) have to let the song be the song, and not cram in all the details. In truth we should pare down our stories so that only the essential ideas are communicated.
I read a good comment in a songwriting book (can't find where the exact quote came from). But somebody famous said, "A song is not done when you've added every detail to a story. It's done when you've stripped everything non essential out of the story so that if you remove one more word the whole thing collapses."
I think that's a helpful idea to keep in mind when approaching writing a song. I always try to focus on what the song wants to be. And let it get in, get the point across, and get out while the getting is good. You want your audience to say "Who was that masked man?" as you ride into the sunset, instead of, "when is that lazy brother-in-law of mine ever going to go home?"
Less is more; more or less.
. . . , I'm rambling again, aren't I?
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Post by brucemacneill on Jul 21, 2011 5:39:11 GMT -5
Appreciate the input, Marshall. Mostly, you guys are just reinforcing what I've been thinking. I didn't expect song writing to be easy, else everyone would do it, just felt I needed to try since I'm just a cover musician so far. I don't know how to add emotion to the song since New Englanders don't have emotions as far as I know, stoic being what it is. I think I can shorten the song some, remove some redundancies etc. Thanks for the listen. I figured I could get better criticism here than I'd get from friends and family.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 8:46:34 GMT -5
Bruce, it's certainly nice to see the evolution of Dear Sarah. From the first time I watched it, I really appreciated the guitar playing, lyrics and structure of the song. It's gotta be way more complicated than any of the stuff I've written lol.
Anyway, I would love to hear/read what you do next. Time to get on it capt'n
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Post by Marshall on Jul 21, 2011 8:49:27 GMT -5
. . . , New Englanders don't have emotions as far as I know, stoic being what it is. . . . , Ha, ha. You know there was something about the understating of the emotionally obvious feelings in the chorus, that did draw me in. That stoic presence disguises deep emotion. It's hinted at throughout without ever being stated. There is something compelling about how our ancesters kept up a facade of detachment while dealing with very difficult situations. There's something very noble and endearing about it. It's certainly counter to our modern culture of whining and wearing your heart on you sleeve. It wouldn't take much to hint that the character is keeping his deep longing in check. Most times understated emotion is more powerful than blurbing it all out, anyway. Watching/listening to a character trying to keep his emotions in check can be very moving. I'm just meandering again. . . . , I like to do that.
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Post by brucemacneill on Jul 28, 2011 14:13:18 GMT -5
Another cut at the lyric to highlight time passed:
This song is from a story that my Grampa told to me When I was just a boy of 6 and he was 83 'bout how his father went to sea the Captain's share to earn and how his mother waited six long years for his return...
My name is John Was Captain Paun The Captain of a whaler but for a ship's bound south of here I'd be a common sailor...
Dear Sarah,
Received your letter yesterday, it sailed for most a year I'll write a dozen back to you and hope one makes it there. I'm proud to hear I have a son, you've named him after me but if he has a lick of sense he'll never go to sea. We sailed to the Pacific and we packed on oil and bone Off loaded in the islands, was too soon to go back home So we sailed up to Alaska but man's greed can be a vice We stayed too long in winter and got stranded in the ice The ship was stove and sinking and we had to leave her there I didn't lose a single man but left with naught to spare. My instruments and Bowditch book I have here in a sack I have a little money and the clothes upon my back I'll have to find a ship bound south and take what work I can No need to be a captain now I'll work like any man I'm bound back for New Bedford, Dear I'm coming home to you but getting to New Bedford just might take a year or two
My name is John My Last name's Paun Was Captain of a whaler but if your ship's bound south of here I'd ask be a sailor
Dear Sarah,
Got down to California on a Bark was hauling wood Smelled better than a whale ship and at least the winds were good Then I worked upon a clipper ship, a pretty sight to see She got me down to Mexico I'll ne'r again drink tea I fished aboard a Tuna boat since it was heading south She got me down to Panama but then my luck ran out. So I've packed across the jungle and I've made it to a bay I've found a Brig that's heading east, we're sailing out today I'm bound back for New Bedford, Dear, I'm coming home to you but getting to New Bedford just might take a month or two
My name is John My Last name's Paun Was Captain of a whaler but if your ship's bound north of here I'd wish to be a sailor
Dear Sarah,
Was beached way down in Cuba couldn't find a ship bound north I found work as a carpenter in months, this was the fourth When I heard of a coastal freighter that was heading for the States If I could get a berth I'll go whatever work it takes I've made it up to Norfolk I could walk the miles from here There's lots of ships here heading north I'll see you shortly, Dear. Been 30 years upon the sea it's always been my life through all those years and trials, Dear, you've been a perfect wife Start packing up the household, Dear,you'll soon be seeing me We're moving to my father's farm, no more to go to sea
The song is from the stories that my grampa told to me of how it was his father had abandoned life at sea and why I grew up on a farm without a sail in sight and how a man could steer a ship by using stars at night I've been down to New Bedford my great-grampa's life to find I've sailed around the horn with him if only in my mind and now I know that good men don't go hunting whales at sea but still I'm proud of all the tales my grampa told to me.
His name was John His last name Paun Was Captain of a whaler but any ship t'would get him home he'd sign on as a sailor for Dear Sarah.
Is that better or worse?
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Post by Hobson on Jul 29, 2011 17:43:26 GMT -5
Bruce, you're really getting down to the nitty gritty on the lyrics. I see that you didn't change much, but I would say that the changes make it better.
In the second verse, I don't understand the 4th line: "She got me down to Mexico I'll ne'r again tea." Must be a typo in there somewhere?? Or maybe I just don't speak the seafaring language.
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Post by brucemacneill on Jul 30, 2011 3:58:45 GMT -5
Yup, typo, added "Drink" to tea. Clippers were fast freight ships mostly used in the tea trade.
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