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Post by billhammond on Mar 25, 2011 17:03:31 GMT -5
Yes, although I was on Minneapolis Vice.
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Post by millring on Mar 25, 2011 17:13:08 GMT -5
I can almost hear Glenn Frey singing "You Belong To The City" as you push the sleeves of your jacket up to your elbows. Must have been filmed in the summer.
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Post by theevan on Mar 26, 2011 9:21:13 GMT -5
I am registered with the State Dept. because of my coming travel to Tanzania. I received an email alert from State yesterday warning me to stay away from the demonstration at the Biafra Grounds near the US Embassy is Dar es Salaam. The demonstration? Protesting the Allied action in Libya. Big demonstration, big enough that the Embassy was closed as a precaution.
Not in the news. Didn't bleed.
Interesting, nay?
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Post by Chesapeake on Mar 26, 2011 17:11:57 GMT -5
I just heard from a National Geographic bud who's just returned from India. He says he is "chagrined" by the amount of anti-Americanism he saw over the intervention in Libya. He said: "To read the newspapers, watch TV news, or talk with the 'chattering classes,' you would never know the Cold War was over."
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Post by brucemacneill on Mar 26, 2011 17:36:10 GMT -5
I just heard from a National Geographic bud who's just returned from India. He says he is "chagrined" by the amount of anti-Americanism he saw over the intervention in Libya. He said: "To read the newspapers, watch TV news, or talk with the 'chattering classes,' you would never know the Cold War was over." I believe that whatever we do the world will find a way to hate us for it. It keeps them from having to look at themselves in the mirror.
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Post by theevan on Mar 26, 2011 18:09:00 GMT -5
I just heard from a National Geographic bud who's just returned from India. He says he is "chagrined" by the amount of anti-Americanism he saw over the intervention in Libya. He said: "To read the newspapers, watch TV news, or talk with the 'chattering classes,' you would never know the Cold War was over." I believe that whatever we do the world will find a way to hate us for it. It keeps them from having to look at themselves in the mirror. Hmmm. You might be on to something, Bruce. Let them hate for sins of omission, not commission.
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Post by Supertramp78 on Mar 26, 2011 18:30:29 GMT -5
Having spent a fair amount of time in India, I can tell you that they do not hate us. To be specific, Indians do not hate Americans. They do, however, have a lot of problems with the things that the American government does around the world. Seeing that at any given time, about 50% of Americans don't like what our government is doing, I see them as not much different from us in that regard.
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Post by Supertramp78 on Mar 26, 2011 19:29:56 GMT -5
All this "nobody loves us" boo hoo hooing reminds me of this....
No one likes us-I don't know why We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try But all around, even our old friends put us down Let's drop the big one and see what happens
We give them money-but are they grateful? No, they're spiteful and they're hateful They don't respect us-so let's surprise them We'll drop the big one and pulverize them
Asia's crowded and Europe's too old Africa is far too hot And Canada's too cold And South America stole our name Let's drop the big one There'll be no one left to blame us
We'll save Australia Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo We'll build an All American amusement park there They got surfin', too
Boom goes London and boom Paris More room for you and more room for me And every city the whole world round Will just be another American town Oh, how peaceful it will be We'll set everybody free You'll wear a Japanese kimono babe And there'll be Italian shoes for me
They all hate us anyhow So let's drop the big one now Let's drop the big one now
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Post by Cornflake on Mar 26, 2011 21:03:40 GMT -5
If I were Indian, and knew that my country had been invaded, occupied and exploited by a western colonial power for over a century, I think I'd take a somewhat dubious view of western military intervention in poorer countries. As do many Arabs and others. History gets remembered.
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Post by Supertramp78 on Mar 26, 2011 21:25:42 GMT -5
Their real problem is Pakistan. They have had a hot and cold war with Pakistan fir decades. When we blunder around in the middle east doing what seems good for us (pissing off Muslims mostly) it end up increasing the militancy of Pakistan. That, in turn, increases the number of terrorist strikes from anti Indian groups within Pakistan on Indian targets around India. So when we kick the ant hill from planes, the ants run around on the ground and bite India. Not that we give a shit since we just can't understand why they don't thank us more often. Our nearsighted view of our own foreign policy is why they have problems with us. All the while we are so arrogant as to demand that they look in a mirror.
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Post by Chesapeake on Mar 26, 2011 22:22:54 GMT -5
I think it also has to do with old cold-war habits dying hard, from the days when India had strong military and diplomatic bonds with the Soviet Union. There is still a robust Communist party in India. My pal talked to (and photographed) a bunch of them in Calcutta.
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Post by theevan on Mar 27, 2011 7:56:23 GMT -5
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Post by Chesapeake on Mar 27, 2011 10:49:05 GMT -5
Time to dust off an old favorite.
The Merry Minuet by Sheldon Harnick
They're rioting in Africa. They're starving in Spain. There's hurricanes in Florida, and Texas needs rain. The whole world is festering with unhappy souls. The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles. Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch. And I don't like anybody very much!
But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud, for man's been endowed with a mushroom-shaped cloud. And we know for certain that some lovely day, someone will set the spark off... and we will all be blown away.
They're rioting in Africa. There's strife in Iran. What nature doesn't do to us... will be done by our fellow man.
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Post by RickW on Mar 27, 2011 10:58:18 GMT -5
The US is the biggest, baddest guy on the planet. You're going to get people hating you. In Libya, despite the fact that in theory you're supporting the "population," all those missiles killed a bunch of people. Their relatives will hate you, and a whole lot more folks who support Moammar and see their lifestyle and livelihood going down the tube.
Foreign policy is not about having people get all squidgy and happy ever time they see a US citizen or the Stars and Stripes. Foreign policy is about making the world a better place for the US. That often involves acts of kindness, often involves acts of violence. It's certainly not a popularity contest.
So, get over yourselves and stuff. ;D
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Post by brucemacneill on Mar 27, 2011 11:05:02 GMT -5
Time to dust off an old favorite. The Merry Minuet by Sheldon Harnick They're rioting in Africa. They're starving in Spain. There's hurricanes in Florida, and Texas needs rain. The whole world is festering with unhappy souls. The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles. Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch. And I don't like anybody very much! But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud, for man's been endowed with a mushroom-shaped cloud. And we know for certain that some lovely day, someone will set the spark off... and we will all be blown away. They're rioting in Africa. There's strife in Iran. What nature doesn't do to us... will be done by our fellow man. Funny, I was playing that last night. I'm putting a playlist of protest songs together for an open mic next week and gave that one some thought. It's not on the list yet but having you mention it raises it's chances. I'm not seeing much difference between now and 1968 at the moment.
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Post by Doug on Mar 27, 2011 11:09:39 GMT -5
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Post by millring on Mar 27, 2011 11:53:13 GMT -5
I just read that the Libyan action could "drag on for months". Months, is not "dragging on" for a military action.
I don't doubt that the administration is handling this situation about the only way they could. From all appearances, there was a coming crisis point that it was within our power to stop. And, thankfully, this time we didn't have to try to stop it alone which is nice because, though we will no doubt still be blamed in some way, at least this time the blame can be deflected to Europeans who actually did see the crisis as a security threat.
Yes, it's likely that we are supporting what are essentially anti-American forces in Libya. It's the kind of calculated risk that we take all the time (I thought it was curious that Clinton said on Meet The Press this morning that she'd met with some opposition leaders in Libya. Curiously, Gregory didn't say WHAT THE HELL, YOU SAY? You mean we DO know who they are? Have our international security experts run down exactly who these guys are and what they stand for? {it would be outrageous to think that they hadn't} )
And I'm more than a little concerned that "democracy" doesn't mean the same thing in the middle east as we think it does here in America. Here I think we have that quaint view of democracy that protects us from the extremes, borne of liberal arts educations and meant to set us free from the tyranny of the few. There I pretty sure it has more in common with the Bolshevik revolution than it does the American revolution. I'd love to be proven wrong.
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Post by millring on Mar 27, 2011 12:16:36 GMT -5
I'm also curious as to how this would be playing out with a McCain presidency.
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Post by brucemacneill on Mar 27, 2011 12:23:44 GMT -5
I'm also curious as to how this would be playing out with a McCain presidency. Based upon McCain's comment that he just wished Obama had acted faster, I'd say nothing would have changed other than the Democrat rhetoric. Actually, other than the Healthcare thing, it's hard to tell the Obama administration from the Bush administration, which McCain would have continued for the most part. The nasty decisions just might have been made faster.
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Post by millring on Mar 27, 2011 12:26:23 GMT -5
I'm also curious as to how this would be playing out with a McCain presidency. Based upon McCain's comment that he just wished Obama had acted faster, I'd say nothing would have changed other than the Democrat rhetoric. Actually, other than the Healthcare thing, it's hard to tell the Obama administration from the Bush administration, which McCain would have continued for the most part. The nasty decisions just might have been made faster. But the press wouldn't be puzzled (as they currently are) either. They would know we were doing the wrong thing by getting into another war.
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