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Post by Doug on Mar 22, 2011 14:42:51 GMT -5
Someone's kid gets dead because it's good for politics. Not a bit of difference. After you've zipped a few body bags your view point changes.
And as far as the ICBM thing. Not a single one of the 10-40 (I didn't bother to count them) different wars we've been in since WW2 has the enemy been a threat.
And you can't write off Iraq as finished we still have troops getting dead there. I think giving an incoming president a pass on existing wars is fine if he starts immediately removing all troops.
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Post by Cornflake on Mar 22, 2011 15:00:23 GMT -5
Doug, somehow I knew you would say that. By the same logic, a UN police action is no different from an attack by a drug cartel in Mexico. I think they're different. Death is death, and it's regrettable no matter how it occurs. That said, the constitutional war power doesn't really fit what occurs when we participate in UN actions.
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Post by Doug on Mar 22, 2011 16:26:33 GMT -5
Doug, somehow I knew you would say that. By the same logic, a UN police action is no different from an attack by a drug cartel in Mexico. I think they're different. Death is death, and it's regrettable no matter how it occurs. That said, the constitutional war power doesn't really fit what occurs when we participate in UN actions. Then we shouldn't be in UN actions. Violence against those who have not attacked you is just camouflaged imperialism at best and simple evil at worst.
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Post by Doug on Mar 23, 2011 7:36:09 GMT -5
www.wcti12.com/news/27257042/detail.htmlCamp Lejeune Marines To Libya By Shumuriel Ratliff / Reporter POSTED: 6:22 pm EDT March 20, 2011 We've seen Camp Lejuene marines in Iraq and Afghanistan and now they are joining the fight against Libya. 2200 marines from the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit, or 26th MEU will take part. Their mission is to help end the violence directed at the Libyan people. "In Libya right now they are doing exactly what we need them to do. They are doing what they are told and right now that's protecting Libyan people against Qadhafi forces," said Captain Timothy Patrick, a marine with the 26th MEU. A press release from the 26th MEU reads, in part: "Protecting the innocent and conducting combined operations are what we are designed to do, our forces are doing both as part of the U.S commitment to protect Libyan citizens." Patrick says that marines from the 26th MEU are coming on the end of their deployment. They will be replaced with marines from the 22nd MEU.
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Post by dickt on Mar 23, 2011 7:55:36 GMT -5
www.wcti12.com/news/27257042/detail.htmlCamp Lejeune Marines To Libya By Shumuriel Ratliff / Reporter POSTED: 6:22 pm EDT March 20, 2011 We've seen Camp Lejuene marines in Iraq and Afghanistan and now they are joining the fight against Libya. 2200 marines from the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit, or 26th MEU will take part. Their mission is to help end the violence directed at the Libyan people. "In Libya right now they are doing exactly what we need them to do. They are doing what they are told and right now that's protecting Libyan people against Qadhafi forces," said Captain Timothy Patrick, a marine with the 26th MEU. A press release from the 26th MEU reads, in part: "Protecting the innocent and conducting combined operations are what we are designed to do, our forces are doing both as part of the U.S commitment to protect Libyan citizens." Patrick says that marines from the 26th MEU are coming on the end of their deployment. They will be replaced with marines from the 22nd MEU. To the shores of Tripoli
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Post by Doug on Mar 23, 2011 8:04:02 GMT -5
No boots on the ground?
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Post by Chesapeake on Mar 23, 2011 12:53:18 GMT -5
Bill O'Reilly is saying this just might work out for Obama, and Michael Moore says Obama should give back the Nobel Peace Prize. This is getting hard to follow.
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Post by billhammond on Mar 23, 2011 12:55:17 GMT -5
Bill O'Reilly is saying this just might work out for Obama, and Michael Moore says Obama should give back the Nobel Peace Prize. This is getting hard to follow. It's not too soon to ask: WWDTD?
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Post by AlanC on Mar 23, 2011 13:14:07 GMT -5
Probably make him a great deal on some cruise missiles. Free Delivery. MTNB-SATOB (Meet the new boss....same as the old boss) Imperialism with a twist of capitalism. Or vercy vicey.
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Post by Supertramp78 on Mar 23, 2011 13:20:45 GMT -5
Fun Daily Show last night with clips of John Bolton, John McCain and Lindsey Graham all attacking Obama for not putting up a no-fly zone over Libya in support of democracy loving rebels there. Then you follow that up with them attacking Obama for putting up a no-fly zone in Libya.
typical
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Post by Marshall on Mar 23, 2011 14:25:01 GMT -5
I've longed been troubled by the increased power of the executive and the decreased power of Congress. The move towards undeclared wars is part of that problem, but in some ways it's the most defensible example of the power shift. If ICBMs are headed towards you, there isn't time to assemble Congress for a vote. I've never heard of a really good solution to that problem. . . . , Get rid of the filabuster first. Congress is a joke. They can't get anything done when a minority can hold the whole wheels of government hostage. I have similar feelings about state boycots. (Even though it has helped the Illinois economy while Wisconsin and Indiana legislators spend some of their pay in Illinois hotels and restaurants). Congress is not accountable for anything. In the public's eye, the President is accountable for everything. PS - Congress abdicated the throne, if Tramp's "War Powers Act" discussion is right.
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Post by paulschlimm on Mar 23, 2011 14:45:45 GMT -5
No boots on the ground. The MEU is operating off of the USS Kearsarge executing Harrier operations and recovery operations for downed air crew. They ain't "in Libya." (Hope I'm right...) That is all.
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Post by Doug on Mar 23, 2011 15:45:49 GMT -5
No boots on the ground. The MEU is operating off of the USS Kearsarge executing Harrier operations and recovery operations for downed air crew. They ain't "in Libya." (Hope I'm right...) That is all. 2200 Marines is more than it takes to keep Harriers in the air. Last I heard and MEU was helo assault. So not on the ground ......... yet. Harriers should be MAS Marine Air Squadron. That's the way it was in the old days with OV10s. Any thing with planes should be a squadron.
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Post by Fingerplucked on Mar 23, 2011 15:52:19 GMT -5
No ground troops, according to Obama: news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110323/ap_on_re_us/us_us_libyaObama was asked in an interview with the Spanish-language network Univision if a land invasion would be out of the question in the event air strikes fail to dislodge Gadhafi from power. Obama replied that it was "absolutely" out of the question.
Asked what the exit strategy is, he didn't lay out a vision for ending the international action, but rather said: "The exit strategy will be executed this week in the sense that we will be pulling back from our much more active efforts to shape the environment."
"We'll still be in a support role, we'll still be providing jamming, and intelligence and other assets that are unique to us, but this is an international effort that's designed to accomplish the goals that were set out in the Security Council resolution," Obama said.
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Post by Chesapeake on Mar 23, 2011 15:53:02 GMT -5
Bill O'Reilly is saying this just might work out for Obama, and Michael Moore says Obama should give back the Nobel Peace Prize. This is getting hard to follow. It's not too soon to ask: WWDTD?He would put Muammar on Celebrity Apprentice.
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Post by paulschlimm on Mar 23, 2011 15:53:42 GMT -5
Doug, I'm not totally familiar with MEU ops. I should have said "in support of" instead of "executing." The MEU were the ones who went in on Ospreys to recover the F-15 crew. You're right in saying the Harriers belong to somebody else.
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Post by paulschlimm on Mar 23, 2011 15:54:51 GMT -5
Doug, I should add: Marines: paid by the Navy, trained by the Army, loved by all 'cause they're fun to watch.
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Post by brucemacneill on Mar 23, 2011 15:59:39 GMT -5
Doug, I should add: Marines: paid by the Navy, trained by the Army, loved by all 'cause they're fun to watch. Marines took very good care of me in Vietnam. OTOH, we did more deals with the army for swapping materials etc. 'cause the Marines didn't have anything to make life easier that we didn't give them, generally stuff we traded the army for. Of course the Airforce had all the good stuff but they were selfish.
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Post by Doug on Mar 23, 2011 16:00:31 GMT -5
Doug, I'm not totally familiar with MEU ops. I should have said "in support of" instead of "executing." The MEU were the ones who went in on Ospreys to recover the F-15 crew. You're right in saying the Harriers belong to somebody else. In the olden days I think what they are calling MEU we would have called FMF Fleet Marine Forces.
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Post by AlanC on Mar 23, 2011 16:03:16 GMT -5
It's not too soon to ask: WWDTD?He would put Muammar on Celebrity Apprentice. Ding, ding ding... we have a winnah! This week on Celebrity Apprentice Africa see which piss ant dictator gets fired! Season two-CA Persian Gulf; Three- CA South America (our old pal Hugo); CA Near East; etc... the possibilities are endless.
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