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Post by drlj on Jul 26, 2017 17:10:37 GMT -5
My point is hidden under my hat. Sorry. I just always wanted to do that when someone starts a sentence with "my point." Just funnin' with you. Besides, you look fine in a hat, especially that red plaid flannel one with the ear flaps.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jul 26, 2017 17:17:28 GMT -5
So--Trump deposits a turd in the punchbowl and it's all about Obama.
Pull the other one--it's got bells on.
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Jul 26, 2017 17:44:28 GMT -5
Undoing Executive Orders is easy. He's done a bit of that. So far, not any legislative dismantling. Obama was a popular President and the laws he passed remain popular. Trump is a very unpopular President, apparently incapable of leading his party towards any legislative achievements. Signing orders, giving speeches and stealing a Supreme Court seat are all, as it turns out, a hell of a lot easier than taking health care away from 20,000,000 Americans.
Obama was a personally popular President but his policies were less popular. If his policies had been popular Hillary would be President now but the policies hurt more people than they helped and those hurt people pulled the plug on them. I'm guessing maybe you weren't damaged by the past 10 years since the Democrats took power in 2007. I don't know how you avoided it but congratulations.Compared to where I was at in 2008 when the market crashed and the economy almost went over the cliff? The country was rather happy that he bailed us out the messes that Bush got us into. Unpopular? Two resounding victories and he lost a race in which he wasn't a candidate. I, for one, was finished talking about W, for the most part, by this time in 2009. I was happy to have Obama in there and pleased to point at what I felt he'd accomplished. Strange to me that six months in anybody who supports Trump is still thinking that much about Obama, much less Hillary.
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Post by brucemacneill on Jul 26, 2017 18:06:07 GMT -5
Obama was a personally popular President but his policies were less popular. If his policies had been popular Hillary would be President now but the policies hurt more people than they helped and those hurt people pulled the plug on them. I'm guessing maybe you weren't damaged by the past 10 years since the Democrats took power in 2007. I don't know how you avoided it but congratulations.Compared to where I was at in 2008 when the market crashed and the economy almost went over the cliff? The country was rather happy that he bailed us out the messes that Bush got us into. Unpopular? Two resounding victories and he lost a race in which he wasn't a candidate. I, for one, was finished talking about W, for the most part, by this time in 2009. I was happy to have Obama in there and pleased to point at what I felt he'd accomplished. Strange to me that six months in anybody who supports Trump is still thinking that much about Obama, much less Hillary. I supported Kasich believing that he was the adult in the room. Trump won. I survived Obama. I'll survive Trump. Our progeny won't survive the debt they're left with. Incidentally, IMHO, the great recession was avoidable except that the Democrats needed a recession to run on after they lost the war as an issue. It was the Schumer recession since he was the guy who pulled the trigger that kicked it off. I know you don't believe that.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jul 26, 2017 18:52:13 GMT -5
Incidentally, IMHO, the great recession was avoidable except that the Democrats needed a recession to run on after they lost the war as an issue. It was the Schumer recession since he was the guy who pulled the trigger that kicked it off. I know you don't believe that. Maybe because one supporter of that assertion is Jerry Bowyer? The guy who has also asserted that national healthcare is linked to terrorism, used to work for one of Richard Scaife's thinktanks, and once called for the US to be a "Christocracy"? Yeah, sure. Or there's always Rush Limbaugh. . . . www.mediamatters.org/research/2011/10/05/limbaughs-fever-dream-sen-schumer-tried-to-dest/183770Schumer's not my favorite guy--he and Phil Gramm helped create the deregulated environment that fed into the finance-as-casino craze that eventually imploded. But as far as I can tell, the recession was kicked off when various plates could no longer be kept spinning.
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Post by Doug on Jul 26, 2017 19:34:24 GMT -5
Yeah, well, Eisenhower, you know...very Lenin-like. President Dwight D. Eisenhower invoked the “bonds of common purpose and common ideals. Collectivism over individualism
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Jul 26, 2017 19:42:51 GMT -5
I was a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Explorer Scout, and Scout leader. I had none of the negative experiences some of you mention. I was at least as contemptuous of authority as any of you but never found Scouting to be authoritarian or militaristic. We took the oath and law to be guides much like the YMCA slogan "I am third." We learned that helping others isn't just a nice idea but the way a person should live. Sure, we had flag ceremonies and said the Pledge of Allegiance, even when we had to learn a new politically revised version, but we never thought of it as a burden.
We learned stuff. Stuff about the natural world and about ourselves and each other. We camped, hiked, cooked, built signal towers and bridges, and performed service projects for others. It was fun and we were inspired by our leaders and by each other.
Those lessons and experiences helped me become who I am today. They provided the guidance that helped me understand that Sen. Joseph McCarthy was the one who was un-American. Had 45 or someone like him been in the public eye in those days, we'd have immediately understood him to be about something other than the America we loved.
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Post by dradtke on Jul 26, 2017 19:49:10 GMT -5
I don't have enough time.
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Post by billhammond on Jul 26, 2017 20:41:11 GMT -5
I was a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Explorer Scout, and Scout leader. I had none of the negative experiences some of you mention. I was at least as contemptuous of authority as any of you but never found Scouting to be authoritarian or militaristic. We took the oath and law to be guides much like the YMCA slogan " I am third." We learned that helping others isn't just a nice idea but the way a person should live. Sure, we had flag ceremonies and said the Pledge of Allegiance, even when we had to learn a new politically revised version, but we never thought of it as a burden. We learned stuff. Stuff about the natural world and about ourselves and each other. We camped, hiked, cooked, built signal towers and bridges, and performed service projects for others. It was fun and we were inspired by our leaders and by each other. Those lessons and experiences helped me become who I am today. They provided the guidance that helped me understand that Sen. Joseph McCarthy was the one who was un-American. Had 45 or someone like him been in the public eye in those days, we'd have immediately understood him to be about something other than the America we loved. My experience almost exactly -- I still tie bowline knots, know basic first aid and cook foil-wrapped hobo stews over coals thanks to Scouting, and my parents probably really rejoiced in intimacy thanks to those weekly meetings and annual summer camp weeks.
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Post by Village Idiot on Jul 26, 2017 20:45:06 GMT -5
We learned stuff. Stuff about the natural world and about ourselves and each other. We camped, hiked, cooked, built signal towers and bridges, and performed service projects for others. It was fun and we were inspired by our leaders and by each other. That was me as well. I never earned many badges, but loved the outdoor and camping part. Especially winter camping. Nothing like huddling inside a canvas WWII pup tent when it's cold and snowy, and waking up to stoke the winter fire. And in the summer, we figured out that smoking cornsilks rolled in newspaper can be done, but is pretty awful.
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Jul 26, 2017 20:54:54 GMT -5
Yeah, well, Eisenhower, you know...very Lenin-like. President Dwight D. Eisenhower invoked the “bonds of common purpose and common ideals. Collectivism over individualism Doug, it is ridiculous to think everything can be done individually. Many important things simply cannot.
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Post by aquaduct on Jul 26, 2017 21:01:17 GMT -5
So--Trump deposits a turd in the punchbowl and it's all about Obama. Pull the other one--it's got bells on. Obama got Trump to the punch bowl. Whatever turds he's dropping that offend you are just icing on the cake.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jul 26, 2017 21:07:33 GMT -5
Peter, Peter--a mixed metaphor never boils.
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Post by aquaduct on Jul 26, 2017 21:22:25 GMT -5
I was a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Explorer Scout, and Scout leader. I had none of the negative experiences some of you mention. I was at least as contemptuous of authority as any of you but never found Scouting to be authoritarian or militaristic. We took the oath and law to be guides much like the YMCA slogan " I am third." We learned that helping others isn't just a nice idea but the way a person should live. Sure, we had flag ceremonies and said the Pledge of Allegiance, even when we had to learn a new politically revised version, but we never thought of it as a burden. We learned stuff. Stuff about the natural world and about ourselves and each other. We camped, hiked, cooked, built signal towers and bridges, and performed service projects for others. It was fun and we were inspired by our leaders and by each other. Those lessons and experiences helped me become who I am today. They provided the guidance that helped me understand that Sen. Joseph McCarthy was the one who was un-American. Had 45 or someone like him been in the public eye in those days, we'd have immediately understood him to be about something other than the America we loved. I was a Cub Scout and Boy Scout too and had many of the same experiences. I camped, cooked, shot guns (first knocked on my ass by a 10 gauge in Scouts) and bows, had ceremonies, raced wooden cars, learned to use tools and tie knots, and generally learned to be self sufficient in Scouts. I also learned what Land of the Free and Home of the Brave actually meant. In my adult life I've witnessed up close and personally how Progressive Socialism and the Nanny State has lied and cheated to sieze control of the System and run that right into the ground. 44 took that train as far as it could go. I'm glad to see 45 (any 45) dismantling the tracks.
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Post by aquaduct on Jul 26, 2017 21:43:30 GMT -5
As long as Trump continues to dismantle any semblance of Obama's existence in office, I don't much care what he says to anybody. Undoing Executive Orders is easy. He's done a bit of that. So far, not any legislative dismantling. Obama was a popular President and the laws he passed remain popular. Trump is a very unpopular President, apparently incapable of leading his party towards any legislative achievements. Signing orders, giving speeches and stealing a Supreme Court seat are all, as it turns out, a hell of a lot easier than taking health care away from 20,000,000 Americans. Correct. Obama had only one real legislative accomplishment. And as it turns out, that one sucks. Congress can't seem to fix it, but that's not Trump's fault. Other than that Obama didn't really pass any laws. Generally because he's incompetent. What he did do was reinterpret laws to get his way when stamping his feet didn't work. The problem with that is that Trump just needs to reinterpret the reinterpretation. How's that Net Neutrality thing going? The Climate Scare/Paris Accord/CO2 Regulation thing? The Clean Power Plan? Obama took the cheap route and Trump is razing the buildings.
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Post by Don Clark on Jul 26, 2017 22:24:38 GMT -5
And in the summer, we figured out that smoking cornsilks rolled in newspaper can be done, but is pretty awful. Oh ACK!!! I think you found something that indeed replaces pot laced with simple syrup or oregano. But that's before your time, Todd.
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Jul 26, 2017 23:29:00 GMT -5
…I also learned what Land of the Free and Home of the Brave actually meant. So did I. We used to travel to hike long trails and earn "patches." One was the Lincoln Trail in Illinois from New Salem to Springfield. To prepare we had to study Lincoln and write a paper about him. That taught me a lot about the "land of the free" and freedom. I learned about "the home of the brave" from an Eagle and Explorer Scout six years my senior when he spoke to our church about his service to migrant workers and his choice to become a conscientious objector. I realized that bravery could be something different than risking one's life in battle.
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Post by patrick on Jul 27, 2017 0:42:34 GMT -5
I made it to First Class. Mostly I was in it because my troop was into hiking and camping in the Sierras. The high school I went to had an active Sierra club that took us out for weeks at a time into the Sierras, so I didn't need scouts anymore.
The scouts have always been about collectivism. All military and paramilitary organizations are collectivist.
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Post by jdd2 on Jul 27, 2017 6:19:29 GMT -5
... Incidentally, IMHO, the great recession was avoidable except that the Democrats needed a recession to run on after they lost the war as an issue. It was the Schumer recession since he was the guy who pulled the trigger that kicked it off. I know you don't believe that. Ya know, Bruce... You should throw your hat in the ring. Sessions is on the ropes, and trump is looking for someone who is his kind of guy. I think you qualify.
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Post by brucemacneill on Jul 27, 2017 6:24:38 GMT -5
... Incidentally, IMHO, the great recession was avoidable except that the Democrats needed a recession to run on after they lost the war as an issue. It was the Schumer recession since he was the guy who pulled the trigger that kicked it off. I know you don't believe that. Ya know, Bruce... You should throw your hat in the ring. Sessions is on the ropes, and trump is looking for someone who is his kind of guy. I think you qualify. Thanks but I got out of politics a long time ago.
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