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Post by aquaduct on Oct 17, 2017 16:54:03 GMT -5
The wife and I just laugh. Trump could read the phone book and the left would herniate themselves looking for some kind of way to torture that into an impeachable offense. Quite laughable really. He didn't read the phone book. This, a lie, is what he said: “The traditional way, if you look at President Obama and other Presidents, most of them didn’t make calls,” Trump said during a White House Rose Garden press conference with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. “A lot of them didn’t make calls. I like to call when it’s appropriate, when I think I’m able to do it.” Minutes later, after a reporter challenged Trump’s comments, the President said he wasn’t sure if his allegation about Obama was true. “I don’t know if he did (call),” Trump said. “I was told he didn’t often and a lot of Presidents don’t. They write letters ... I do a combination of both. Sometimes it’s a very difficult thing to do, but I do a combination of both. President Obama, I think, probably did sometimes and maybe sometimes he didn’t. I don’t know. That’s what I was told.” If this is your threshold for a lie, it's pretty damn low. By this measure Obama's entire career has been a hienous fraud. And even as much of an incompetent boob as I believe Obama to be, I can't bring myself to believe it was lying. That would imply motives not in evidence. Don't blame malice when simple ignorance will suffice. Unless of course you're just a lying POS liberal.
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Post by TKennedy on Oct 17, 2017 17:00:01 GMT -5
Maybe WWIII wouldn't be so bad, Trump would die from writer's cramp.
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Post by Marty on Oct 17, 2017 17:09:12 GMT -5
He didn't read the phone book. This, a lie, is what he said: “The traditional way, if you look at President Obama and other Presidents, most of them didn’t make calls,” Trump said during a White House Rose Garden press conference with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. “A lot of them didn’t make calls. I like to call when it’s appropriate, when I think I’m able to do it.” Minutes later, after a reporter challenged Trump’s comments, the President said he wasn’t sure if his allegation about Obama was true. “I don’t know if he did (call),” Trump said. “I was told he didn’t often and a lot of Presidents don’t. They write letters ... I do a combination of both. Sometimes it’s a very difficult thing to do, but I do a combination of both. President Obama, I think, probably did sometimes and maybe sometimes he didn’t. I don’t know. That’s what I was told.” If this is your threshold for a lie, it's pretty damn low. By this measure Obama's entire career has been a hienous fraud. And even as much of an incompetent boob as I believe Obama to be, I can't bring myself to believe it was lying. That would imply motives not in evidence. Don't blame malice when simple ignorance will suffice. Unless of course you're just a lying POS liberal. Peter, did you READ my last post on this thread or are you testing my resolve to get you to be civil?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 17:14:37 GMT -5
The premise of the thread, being partisan and willfully blind to the lies of the other side, invited incivility.
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 17, 2017 17:19:18 GMT -5
In the hopes that some of my grownup words will be read with grownup comprehension: Bruce, I didn't call anyone here a racist. I do, however, assert that a non-trivial fraction of the opposition to Obama was (and remains) rooted in racist bigotry. If you disagree with that proposition, I suggest that you have spent the last decade living in a cave. Which you haven't. (And try selling that "half-white" notion to a real racist. You are old enough, I know, that you should be familiar with the single-drop model of blackness. I have a nephew and neice who are more-than-half-white. The world treats them as black.) John, my grownup words were these: When Trump says something that is demonstrably not true*, one has a limited set of explanations available: he was misinformed or mistaken (these are distinct conditions that can overlap) or he knowingly uttered an untruth. Any mentally and socially competent adult should be able to understand this and to work out the situations that would lead to one of the available conclusions. If that set of distinctions doesn't make sense, then I'll try one more explanation. Trump does indeed make statements that are demonstrably untrue. The tape archives are full of them. (I mention tape because that way the utterance itself is preserved, and not merely reporting on it--though his Twitter feed should yield similar data.) The conventional sense of a lie is an untruth presented by one who knows it is untrue. That's a subjective state. But even if Trump believes everything he says when he says it, he still says things that some members of his audience recognize on the spot as being untrue. And when he is challenged, he has several kinds of response: he doubles down, he questions the integrity or trustworthiness of the challenger or the contrary source ("fake news"), or he does the deniability shuffle--"Well, that's what someone said." In fact, the deniability shuffle is often deployed at the same time that the untruth is offered: "Some people say X. I don't know. But some people say." We didn't get Trump because I and others can spot a man who either doesn't care about the truth or can't distinguish it from his own fantasies and sales pitches; we got Trump because enough of the electorate (in crucial parts of the electoral map) either turned off their bullshit detectors or never had decently programmed units to begin with.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 17:22:41 GMT -5
We didn't get Trump because I and others can spot a man who either doesn't care about the truth or can't distinguish it from his own fantasies and sales pitches; we got Trump because enough of the electorate (in crucial parts of the electoral map) either turned off their bullshit detectors or never had decently programmed units to begin with. The same reasons "we" would have gotten Clinton, had she won. I'm not particularly a fan of DJT but I couldn't have stomached another five minutes of HRC. Yet she just won't go away.
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Post by Marty on Oct 17, 2017 17:23:17 GMT -5
The premise of the thread, being partisan and willfully blind to the lies of the other side, invited incivility. Wrong answer: 30 days suspension from this forum.
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Post by millring on Oct 17, 2017 17:23:51 GMT -5
John, my grownup words were these: Oh, don't go pretending you're grown up. I know better.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2017 17:27:55 GMT -5
The premise of the thread, being partisan and willfully blind to the lies of the other side, invited incivility. Wrong answer: 30 days suspension from this forum. Bruce or me? Seemed like a reasonable comment. It wasn't a lie.
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Post by Doug on Oct 17, 2017 17:30:13 GMT -5
We didn't get Trump because I and others can spot a man who either doesn't care about the truth or can't distinguish it from his own fantasies and sales pitches; we got Trump because enough of the electorate (in crucial parts of the electoral map) either turned off their bullshit detectors or never had decently programmed units to begin with. I think that while better written is just more "gods and guns", "they are all despicable " group. Creating more Trumpites.
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Post by Marty on Oct 17, 2017 17:30:47 GMT -5
Wrong answer: 30 days suspension from this forum. Bruce or me? Seemed like a reasonable comment. It wasn't a lie. Sorry Tom, I thought that was Peter's reply. I'm a little ticked off that he chose to make a personal attack right after I posted a warning about doing so.
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Post by james on Oct 17, 2017 17:30:47 GMT -5
Paging Mr. Hammond. Have you got any of those cupcakes?
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 17, 2017 17:30:59 GMT -5
If this is your threshold for a lie, it's pretty damn low. By this measure Obama's entire career has been a hienous fraud. And even as much of an incompetent boob as I believe Obama to be, I can't bring myself to believe it was lying. That would imply motives not in evidence. Don't blame malice when simple ignorance will suffice. Unless of course you're just a lying POS liberal. Peter, did you READ my last post on this thread or are you testing my resolve to get you to be civil?What? I didn't say anything about anyone here. 😈
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Post by Marty on Oct 17, 2017 17:35:36 GMT -5
Don't give me that coy look while batting your eyelashes, keep it civil.
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 17, 2017 17:54:55 GMT -5
Oh, don't go pretending you're grown up. I know better. My words are often more adult than I am. (Maybe because I have to use them to talk to Cezarija, who is pretty demanding about making sense and stuff.)
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 17, 2017 17:56:28 GMT -5
Don't give me that coy look while batting your eyelashes, keep it civil. I was actually being ironic. Lecturing about jumping to a lying conclusion and then doing it myself. But hey, I said something nice about Obama. That was painful. Should count for something.
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Post by Chesapeake on Oct 17, 2017 17:59:24 GMT -5
That's pretty much what I think. I think Trump represents a lot of legitimate complaints his supporters have about what's going on in our country, but I also think he is a deeply flawed champion, unworthy of his supporters' adulation.
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Post by jdd2 on Oct 17, 2017 18:08:48 GMT -5
I think there is a meta-game at play here. I'm not sure how much of this is a deliberate strategy vs just gut instinct, but either way, I do think there is some method to all of this. If you want to make sense of it, consider this photo: Now ask yourself how military families (not all, of course, but many) would view that photo. ... For all the discomfort that this caused among military families, I think it pales in comparison to the distress caused drumpf's attack on Khizr and Ghazala Khan last year. He doesn't care about gold star families then or now, because they're not him.
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Post by millring on Oct 17, 2017 18:12:24 GMT -5
...and yet, I heard the news today (oh boy) that we captured Raqqa back.
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Post by patrick on Oct 17, 2017 18:18:48 GMT -5
Trump is correct about this. I have it on good authority that neither Lincoln nor Washington ever called the family of a fallen soldier. There, I said something in defense of Trump. I hope that gets me some good karma or indulgences or something when I return to my usual shitting on him.
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