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Post by billhammond on Aug 4, 2019 7:51:38 GMT -5
Within 24 hours, 20 shot to death in El Paso, nine more in Dayton, Ohio. I cry … but that does no good.
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Post by coachdoc on Aug 4, 2019 8:50:30 GMT -5
As predicted by 1968's 'Stand on Zanzibar.'
From Wiki: Stand on Zanzibar was innovative within the science fiction genre for mixing narrative with entire chapters dedicated to providing background information and worldbuilding, to create a sprawling narrative that presents a complex and multi-faceted view of the story's future world. Such information-rich chapters were often constructed from many short paragraphs, sentences, or fragments thereof—pulled from in-world sources such as slogans, snatches of conversation, advertising text, songs, extracts from newspapers and books, and other cultural detritus.
It predicted 'Muckers.' People who just couldn't stand anymore and went on killing sprees. It is eerie in its predictions for our current time. Near future sci fi that is playing out as current events.
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Post by Chesapeake on Aug 4, 2019 9:59:40 GMT -5
As predicted by 1968's 'Stand on Zanzibar.' From Wiki: Stand on Zanzibar was innovative within the science fiction genre for mixing narrative with entire chapters dedicated to providing background information and worldbuilding, to create a sprawling narrative that presents a complex and multi-faceted view of the story's future world. Such information-rich chapters were often constructed from many short paragraphs, sentences, or fragments thereof—pulled from in-world sources such as slogans, snatches of conversation, advertising text, songs, extracts from newspapers and books, and other cultural detritus.
It predicted 'Muckers.' People who just couldn't stand anymore and went on killing sprees. It is eerie in its predictions for our current time. Near future sci fi that is playing out as current events. John Dos Passos used a similar technique in the USA trilogy. Very ground-breaking at the time - and I guess it still is.
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Post by Russell Letson on Aug 4, 2019 10:23:46 GMT -5
Even when it was published, Brunner's technique was recognized as coming out of Dos Passos, just as much of the avant-garde stylistic "experiments" of the New Wave were imported from generations-earlier modernists such as Joyce.
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Post by Chesapeake on Aug 4, 2019 10:24:17 GMT -5
I'd be interested in seeing some reporting on how people who've been hard-line gun-rights advocates unwilling to accept any compromise on the issue, and who have lost children or other loved ones in any of the mass shootings, feel about guns rights now.
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Post by coachdoc on Aug 4, 2019 10:41:57 GMT -5
Beto on the report that military style weapon used in the El Paso shooting:
"He said he heard early reports that the shooter might have had a military-style weapon, saying we need to ‘‘keep that (expletive) on the battlefield. Do not bring it into our communities.’’
You betcha.
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Post by billhammond on Aug 4, 2019 12:37:23 GMT -5
OMG, the Dayton shooter's victims included his sister and her boyfriend, found shot to death in a car.
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Post by Chesapeake on Aug 4, 2019 13:29:14 GMT -5
I can see only one way to substantially decrease the frequency of these tragedies, short of confiscating guns (not going to happen) or amping-up gun regulations (might help around the edges but not a panacea). The best hope is to change the culture of hate, racism, xenophobia, and the general divisiveness that is fracturing our society.
Those demons have been unleashed, and not just in the U.S. (Though I would contend that Trump has been a leader in promulgating violence here.) It will take years, possibly one or more generations, to fix, starting in our country with a new president who will make it an ongoing, priority goal to heal wounds and promote national unity, instead of actively pitting us against each other.
No doubt, with continued easy access to these military-style weapons, and the presence among us of mentally unbalanced individuals, we'll never eradicate this curse. But we can drastically rein it back.
In the meantime, this is the new normal. We'll just have to get used to it.
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Post by amanajoe on Aug 4, 2019 13:40:31 GMT -5
This is going on almost every day in the inner city areas but hardly reported outside of those cities.
Not national news, but 7 were shot in Chicago. No deaths. There is a listing of Chicago shootings that all meet the metric of mass shootings that have occurred in just the last two months.
Why isn't it national news? Is it because it is the new normal, or that it doesn't fit the angry person with an assault weapon narrative?
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Post by coachdoc on Aug 4, 2019 13:48:33 GMT -5
This is going on almost every day in the inner city areas but hardly reported outside of those cities. Not national news, but 7 were shot in Chicago. No deaths. There is a listing of Chicago shootings that all meet the metric of mass shootings that have occurred in just the last two months. Why isn't it national news? Is it because it is the new normal, or that it doesn't fit the angry person with an assault weapon narrative? [br) Yes.
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Post by billhammond on Aug 4, 2019 13:52:26 GMT -5
This is going on almost every day in the inner city areas but hardly reported outside of those cities. Not national news, but 7 were shot in Chicago. No deaths. There is a listing of Chicago shootings that all meet the metric of mass shootings that have occurred in just the last two months. Why isn't it national news? Is it because it is the new normal, or that it doesn't fit the angry person with an assault weapon narrative? Gee, I guess I don't agree with you, Joe -- I read often about all the shootings in Chicago and Baltimore and other cities, on a lot of levels -- CNN, Associated Press, various other media outlets that can be seen by scrolling through msn.com, etc. I don't think lack of coverage is the problem, nor, I regret to opine, is addressing hatefulness, as Don suggests. I mean, good Lord, the Ohio shooter killed his SISTER, among all the others. I think it's just untenable and quite frankly, hopeless.
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Post by millring on Aug 4, 2019 14:02:29 GMT -5
With this I unequivocally agree. We have simply created a boulder so big that we cannot lift it.
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Aug 4, 2019 14:08:09 GMT -5
Stooges representing the small minority of Americans against common sense gun laws were all over the network Sunday shows claiming that the real problem is not guns, but mental health.
Did Chuck Todd or George S. or any of the others ask this simple question:
What, specifically are your proposals for addressing the part of our gun violence problem that can be attributed to mental health issues?
No. They didn't ask.
Too bad.
A chance to expose these charlatans wasted.
Mental illness is their go-to deflection from addressing common sense proposals for reducing access to guns- proposals that actually do exist, and which would make a difference.
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Post by sidheguitarmichael on Aug 4, 2019 14:56:14 GMT -5
OMG, the Dayton shooter's victims stemmed from his sister and her boyfriend, found shot to death in a car. More to the point. It seems highly unlikely that this guy just randomly happened upon his sister in the midst of spree shooting, and either didn’t recognize her, or thought: "weird, what’s she doing here? Oh what the hell, so long as I’m at it anyways..." (although, nothing much surprises these days) So far as moving forward, I am intrigued by this approach, detailed here, FWIW: gunculture2point0.wordpress.com/2018/03/26/interesting-take-on-the-path-forward-on-guns/
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Post by theevan on Aug 4, 2019 17:00:10 GMT -5
OMG, the Dayton shooter's victims stemmed from his sister and her boyfriend, found shot to death in a car. More to the point. It seems highly unlikely that this guy just randomly happened upon his sister in the midst of spree shooting, and either didn’t recognize her, or thought: "weird, what’s she doing here? Oh what the hell, so long as I’m at it anyways..." (although, nothing much surprises these days) So far as moving forward, I am intrigued by this approach, detailed here, FWIW: gunculture2point0.wordpress.com/2018/03/26/interesting-take-on-the-path-forward-on-guns/Looks great to me, but I'd wager the "controllers" will find it a non-starter.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 20,289
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Post by Dub on Aug 4, 2019 17:24:17 GMT -5
I noticed a piece in Friday’s Washington Post saying that bullet proof backpacks are a popular item for the new school year.
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Post by Village Idiot on Aug 4, 2019 17:37:47 GMT -5
I can see only one way to substantially decrease the frequency of these tragedies, short of confiscating guns (not going to happen) or amping-up gun regulations (might help around the edges but not a panacea). The best hope is to change the culture of hate, racism, xenophobia, and the general divisiveness that is fracturing our society. I agree mostly, but I'd hate to say we're not going to try confiscating (military style) weapons because it's not going to happen. According to the link Sidheguitarmichael put up, machine guns were banned in 1986. Bump stocks have been banned recently. I'd like to continue that effort, including the Australian buy-back idea. Sure, it might not accomplish much, but some windmills are worth tilting toward.
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 4, 2019 17:49:13 GMT -5
I see a couple of problems with any gun control attempts. First there's that 2nd amendment problem. 2nd, rules, laws and regulations only apply to willing law abiding citizens. The kind of people who do these shootings couldn't care less what you make law.
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Post by amanajoe on Aug 4, 2019 18:11:15 GMT -5
This is going on almost every day in the inner city areas but hardly reported outside of those cities. Not national news, but 7 were shot in Chicago. No deaths. There is a listing of Chicago shootings that all meet the metric of mass shootings that have occurred in just the last two months. Why isn't it national news? Is it because it is the new normal, or that it doesn't fit the angry person with an assault weapon narrative? Gee, I guess I don't agree with you, Joe -- I read often about all the shootings in Chicago and Baltimore and other cities, on a lot of levels -- CNN, Associated Press, various other media outlets that can be seen by scrolling through msn.com, etc. I don't think lack of coverage is the problem, nor, I regret to opine, is addressing hatefulness, as Don suggests. I mean, good Lord, the Ohio shooter killed his SISTER, among all the others. I think it's just untenable and quite frankly, hopeless. Maybe I wasn’t being as eloquent in my wording. What I meant by national news was the saturation non stop, we have to do something reporting. CBS just ran a story about the groups praying for those in the two cities, but again, no mention of the Chicago shootings that happened too. In in the good Lord department, you are right, he did kill his sister and we will never know why and we will never hear the toxicology report of what psychoactive prescription drugs may have been in his system. Coming off of psychoactive drugs incorrectly creates a justification for all sorts of horrendous acts, luckily the people I’ve dealt with that had those reactions, didn’t have access to any weapons. Im not justifying any thing that has happened in any of the mass shootings, ever. What I am saying is that the trend I’ve seen since Virginia tech is that there were psychoactive drugs prescribed to people that had access to guns and then nobody had a way to take away those guns. Stop taking them or take other drugs with them that you shouldn’t and the results will be on the scale of frightening to sickening. The activities in Chicago are gangland related and how you can do anything to change a culture of gangland violence, that is another whole issue that fails me in terms of what people are thinking or how they can be so careless with their lives and the lives of others.
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Post by Chesapeake on Aug 4, 2019 18:16:16 GMT -5
Observation: It used to be that people who lived small-town, blue-collar, rural America, or exurbia, had little concern for the carnage being carried on in cities due to the availability of guns, both legal and illegal. They felt they themselves had no need for tighter national gun laws, screw the crazy city dwellers. Not their problem.
Now that they're shooting up suburban Walmarts, I wonder if these folks might be due for a little attitude adjusting.
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