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Post by Marshall on Dec 9, 2019 17:58:39 GMT -5
I think Bloomberg would be the Democrats strongest candidate, and I think he would win. He has competency creds. He has business/economy creds. And he has some green creds. Libs (most) will accept him, conservatives (most) won't fear him, and the middle (all) will be damn grateful. I think he could run a first ever successful third party candidacy. A Trump/Warren choice out of the conventions would create a wide open door for him. No 3rd party will ever win. If Bloomberg runs as a 3rd party the D candidate, whomever it is, is doomed. He has a chance as the D candidate. But he's got a lot of ground to cover to get there. And the wild card is how will he sound in debates and/or speeches. The American public loves their sound-bite candidates. And so far he's just displaying some spiffy scripted commercials. (And there's a lot of old footage of him that rivals can dig up that won't portray him in a good light.)
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Post by Marshall on Dec 9, 2019 18:01:57 GMT -5
. . . , I think that provides a useful explanation for the steady stream of stories (pretty much 4 years worth of them by now) to the effect of "this latest thing will certainly, finally, this time, be the end of Trump". The answer is something like "Yes, if this were a Northern, it would be. But this is a Western, and in prototypical Clint Eastwood fashion, we understand that the hero is flawed."Yeah. That's particularly good. . . . , SCARY, but good. I just gotta hope that the country doesn't really want Dirty Harry running the joint.
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Post by fauxmaha on Dec 9, 2019 18:13:48 GMT -5
Yeah. That's particularly good. . . . , SCARY, but good. I just gotta hope that the country doesn't really want Dirty Harry running the joint. I read a review of his new Richard Jewell movie today, and it made the point that in typical Eastwood fashion, he didn't lionize Jewell. He presented him as a flawed, complex character, just like the rest of us. Got me thinking back to other Eastwood directed movies, and I realized that that is a trademark of his. William Munny was a bad guy, but he was the good guy. Which gets me to wondering if that is part of the secret to Trump's success. Maybe that much is obvious...we are inundated with pols who present carefully polished public images...and Trump breaks the mold. Flamboyantly. His frequent braggadociousness is met with horror from those who think they are watching a Northern, yet enthusiastically embraced by those who are enjoying the Western.
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 9, 2019 18:41:19 GMT -5
. . . , I think that provides a useful explanation for the steady stream of stories (pretty much 4 years worth of them by now) to the effect of "this latest thing will certainly, finally, this time, be the end of Trump". The answer is something like "Yes, if this were a Northern, it would be. But this is a Western, and in prototypical Clint Eastwood fashion, we understand that the hero is flawed."Yeah. That's particularly good. . . . , SCARY, but good. I just gotta hope that the country doesn't really want Dirty Harry running the joint. Yes, we actually really do.
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Post by TKennedy on Dec 9, 2019 19:09:03 GMT -5
Once I decided to look at the current cat fight as a cartoon to be viewed as light hearted entertainment rather than the disintegration of our democracy it has made it easier to keep these assholes out of my head.
Trump could have interjected some levity into the event to defuse his insults. Neologisms are good for a chuckle like-
Define “circumvent “ The opening in the front of a Jewish man’s boxer shorts.
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Post by jdd2 on Dec 9, 2019 19:11:12 GMT -5
... Trump could have interjected some levity ... And the last time trump even tried to crack a joke was...?
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Post by brucemacneill on Dec 9, 2019 19:28:38 GMT -5
Probably the last time he opened his mouth. He's from New York, you know.
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Post by howard lee on Dec 9, 2019 19:44:49 GMT -5
Nice broad brush stroke, Bruce. "Soifer pointed out that Trump, in fact, does not have the support of the majority of American Jews." I think this applies to secular or modern American Jews. I belong to the former group. I can tell you without hesitation that at least 80% of the Hasidic community here in New York voted for Trump. I know this because I have worked beside them for 40 hours a week, 48 weeks a year, for the last 13 years. And they voted for him for one reason only—his pro-Israel stance. That's how their rabbis told them to vote. That's how they voted. Also, with a nod to Hasidic misogynist culture, there's no way they would ever have voted for a woman. Not only does Trump presume that there isn't enough support for Israel from American Jews—a subject I can guarantee he knows nothing about, zip, nada, his Jewish son-in-law notwithstanding (wasn't Jared going to broker a peace deal in the Middle East?)—but he also makes comments (based on stereotypes, puh-LEEZE) about Jews and wealth in light of the wealth tax. I wonder how my coworkers feel about having helped put him in the White House now. If they are even aware of his anti-semitic tropes. As a child and grandchild of Holocaust survivors, and a direct target of anti-semitic bullying when I was young, this shit infuriates me way beyond the limits of how infuriated I thought I could get. I fantasize sometimes about him accepting a challenge to meet me in the ring for a boxing match, and me kicking his racist, self-serving ass. That's about all the politics you're going to get out of me.
Addendum: You fuck with my people, you fuck with me.
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 9, 2019 21:27:46 GMT -5
Yeah. That's particularly good. . . . , SCARY, but good. I just gotta hope that the country doesn't really want Dirty Harry running the joint. I read a review of his new Richard Jewell movie today, and it made the point that in typical Eastwood fashion, he didn't lionize Jewell. He presented him as a flawed, complex character, just like the rest of us. Got me thinking back to other Eastwood directed movies, and I realized that that is a trademark of his. William Munny was a bad guy, but he was the good guy. Which gets me to wondering if that is part of the secret to Trump's success. Maybe that much is obvious...we are inundated with pols who present carefully polished public images...and Trump breaks the mold. Flamboyantly. His frequent braggadociousness is met with horror from those who think they are watching a Northern, yet enthusiastically embraced by those who are enjoying the Western. To extend the Eastwood metaphor, much of the success of Trump is due to the ability to beat his opposition at thier own game. Look at all he's accomplished. It isn't just that it's great, it's also that he's pushed it through the Administrative State gate keepers that never thought they could be outsmarted. And he hasn't waffled or wandered off message. Just look at how he's changed the courts. Including the Supremes. And then think about how much more damage he'll be able to do to the status quo in his next term. A gunfight against overwhelming odds and when the smoke clears, he's the only one standing. Smoking that same stub of a cigar.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 9, 2019 22:29:12 GMT -5
Yeah. That's particularly good. . . . , SCARY, but good. I just gotta hope that the country doesn't really want Dirty Harry running the joint. Yes, we actually really do. Hhhhm. This is all very interesting. Interesting in that you forumites here who defend Trump, all have said they did not vote for him last time around. But I suspect you will now. Last time he was portrayed as the "Southern" change-the-system-from-outside candidate. Kinda what the Country usually elects. But he is clearly now the Western Cowboy candidate. That can't be denied. And I would guess that you Trump hearlders, that didn't actually vote for him last time, would vote for him next time. (barring some big change in world affairs). But I wonder if enough people in swing states (WI, MI, PN, FL, OH) will see it that way. Therein lies the balance.
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 9, 2019 22:39:28 GMT -5
Yes, we actually really do. Hhhhm. This is all very interesting. Interesting in that you forumites here who defend Trump, all have said they did not vote for him last time around. But I suspect you will now. Last time he was portrayed as the "Southern" change-the-system-from-outside candidate. Kinda what the Country usually elects. But he is clearly now the Western Cowboy candidate. That can't be denied. And I would guess that you Trump hearlders, that didn't actually vote for him last time, would vote for him next time. (barring some big change in world affairs). But I wonder if enough people in swing states (WI, MI, PN, FL, OH) will see it that way. Therein lies the balance. I'd argue that last time Trump was the "change the g-damn system come hell or high water" candidate. Now he's the "holy shit, he meant it" candidate. You can take him a lot more seriously this time, whether you hate him or love him. However, continuing to not take him seriously is only setting his opponents up for another round of humiliation.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 9, 2019 22:51:37 GMT -5
Believe me. I take him SERIOUSLY.
I've said before that the Great Recession caused Trump. . . . , Actually Steve Bannon said it first. Sort of like how the Great Depression caused the rise of totalitarianism in the 1930's. But unlike the Great Depression which lasted for decades, the Great Recession was much more short lived. And people's faith in institutions have not been shaken as badly as during the Depression. I'd like to think that that means the country will have had enough of Dirty harry politics.
But that's all speculation on my part. (As is any retort you would care to make).
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Post by epaul on Dec 9, 2019 22:51:52 GMT -5
Nice broad brush stroke, Bruce... Well, hell! You're Howard! Hi Howard! I didn't know who the hell you [bluegrassacolyte] were, but I just assumed from your posts, tone and content, that you were another Minnesotan (or Iowan, but you sounded a little too intelligent to be a native Iowan). You even had something good to say about the Vikings. You don't belong in that city. You're midwestern country boy.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 9, 2019 22:58:18 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2019 5:36:17 GMT -5
Here's an interesting off-the-top-of-my-head observation. This from Fauxmaha's Malcom Gladwell thread. Trump - Is a Western. There is no system. The Cowboy gunslinger Biden - is a Northern. The system will cure itself. Warren & Sanders - I don't know. Probably an Eastern. The system is corrupt and needs to be fixed by an insider - Serpico Buttigieg & Bloomberg - A Southern? The system is corrupt and needs to be fixed by an outsider. Most often the American public picks an outsider (Southern): Reagan, Carter, Bill Clinton, Bush II, Trump. Bush I was an insider (Northern). Obama was mostly an outsider (Southern), because even though his was a Congressman, he really had no history in government. The public never picks a Cowboy. ( Ross Perot) When Trump ran in 2016, he was a Southern, and outsider who would reform. Hillary was a Northern. She was riding on her experience. But since being elected, Trump has shown a total disregard for every institution in this country. That's not a Southern. That's a Cowboy. Yeah, if the Western is Blazing Saddles and Trump is Harvey Korman's Hedley Lamarr....
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Post by howard lee on Dec 10, 2019 6:40:51 GMT -5
Nice broad brush stroke, Bruce... Well, hell! You're Howard! Hi Howard! I didn't know who the hell you [bluegrassacolyte] were, but I just assumed from your posts, tone and content, that you were another Minnesotan (or Iowan, but you sounded a little too intelligent to be a native Iowan). You even had something good to say about the Vikings. You don't belong in that city. You're midwestern country boy. I have never said anything good about the Vikings. In fact, I have never said anything about the Vikings.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 10, 2019 9:11:54 GMT -5
To press this Malcolm Gladwell thing even further: The Impeachment Hearings are a fiasco, because everyone in Congress is by definition a Northern. They believe the system works. They are the system. And they will argue vehemently for their side of the Law and Order (or Perry Mason) argument. The Ds say, "Quid Pro Quo. He broke the law." The Rs raise procedural issues and say, "Nothing has risen to the level of an impeachable offense." They are all jostling to prove the system works for their point of view.
Here's another thing I thought. This one is not political. The old TV show Western, Gun Smoke, was really a northern, not a western. Marshal Dillon, always prevailed. I remember the opening gun dual. The other guy drew and shot first and missed, but Marshal Dillon made his shot count. The system worked.
And he got Kitty in the end.
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 10, 2019 9:17:38 GMT -5
To press this Malcolm Gladwell thing even further: The Impeachment Hearings are a fiasco, because everyone in Congress is by definition a Northern. They believe the system works. They are the system. And they will argue vehemently for their side of the Law and Order (or Perry Mason) argument. The Ds say, "Quid Pro Quo. He broke the law." The Rs raise procedural issues and say, "Nothing has risen to the level of an impeachable offense." They are all jostling to prove the system works for their point of view. Here's another thing I thought. This one is not political. The old TV show Western, Gun Smoke, was really a northern, not a western. Marshal Dillon, always prevailed. I remember the opening gun dual. The other guy drew and shot first and missed, but Marshal Dillon made his shot count. The system worked. And he got Kitty in the end. You now fully understand Trump as the antidote to the Administrative State that has plagued the country since roughly the mid-60s.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 10, 2019 9:41:27 GMT -5
I understand that you feel that way, Peter. It's a valid conclusion from a certain point of view. But that's not a point of view shared by everyone. That's why Law and Order, and Dirty Harry can both play on TV screens.
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 10, 2019 9:45:36 GMT -5
I understand that you feel that way, Peter. It's a valid conclusion from a certain point of view. But that's not a point of view shared by everyone. That's why Law and Order, and Dirty Harry can both play on TV screens. And Trump can watch them both from the Oval Office in 2021.
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