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Post by aquaduct on May 11, 2020 11:48:54 GMT -5
Daggum, the author is a close friend of Thomas, Christine's husband. He was at the wedding...drove all the way from Michigan. I remember him now. You gotta watch those guys from Michigan.
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Post by fauxmaha on May 11, 2020 12:10:28 GMT -5
I don't understand how anyone objects to the "class privilege" formulation.
Maybe the rhetoric, I suppose, but the concept itself? Surely not.
If you are among those who have the ability to work from home, you are in fact quite privileged vis-a-vis those who do not. And those who do not enjoy such flexibility tend to be employed in relatively low-pay occupations. Food service. Hair cutters. Shop keepers. Assembly work. Etc, etc, etc.
The single mom who three months ago was barely holding it together with her waitress gig at Applebees probably thinks of those who have the ability to work via email and zoom to be pretty damned "privileged". Not to mention those who have the ability to not work at all because they are retired.
I'm more than a little amazed at the extent of the (sorry to use what is surely an inflammatory term here, but in my mind it fits) decadence on display. There are millions of people who simultaneously think A) It is too dangerous to go outside while B) Expecting that all their needs will be met via on-line ordering and delivery.
Who do you think is going to deliver that stuff to you? Who do you think is going to make that stuff available to them?
It feels like an attitude is brewing along the lines of "I'm important enough to stay safe, but I have money, so I expect others to put themselves at risk for my sake".
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Post by Russell Letson on May 11, 2020 12:13:09 GMT -5
Evan, one of the main lines of Ashbach's argument is precisely a kind of moral-emotional cost-accounting in life-and-death situations: whose life, at whose cost. He wants us to balance C-19 deaths against preventative measures that are "cramping lives and destroying livelihoods" and limiting "the very stuff of meaningful life." I have been seeing arguments like these for decades in the debates over abortion and euthanasia, at the core of which is usually the absolute value of human life. Catholic doctrine is that every fetus, from conception onward, is a fully human soul and that deliberately ending that life is murder. For some, this means that birth control measures that prevent the implantation of a fertizied egg amounts to abortion.
In any case, traditional pro-life arguments are firmly rooted in "life" as an absolute that trumps all other values. That's why Ashbach's training in apologetics sets off alarms for me, even without the flashing lights and sirens of his emotive language. So fuck him and the rhetorical-dialectial horse he rode in on.
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Post by Marshall on May 11, 2020 12:20:49 GMT -5
There seem to be a variety of tests and I don't understand them all. A friend is being treated at the Mayo Clinic here for an unusual cancer that is incurable but pretty manageable. Before he could get his treatment this month, he had to go by in advance for a drive-by virus test. Something about his RNA apparently made them give him a higher-grade test. They wouldn't administer it until he'd put his truck in park to make sure he didn't stomp on the accelerator from the pain of the test. He said it was eye-wateringly painful and he's a stoic guy. A swab was inserted way up his nose. The results were negative so now he can get his treatment tomorrow. I got swabbed on Saturday. Pretty unpleasant affair. That thing was shoved in far enough that I felt it in the back of my throat. But a small inconvenience considering all that goes on in the world.
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Post by Russell Letson on May 11, 2020 12:23:02 GMT -5
I love it when the right wing and libertarians start playing the privilege card.
I have the "privilege" of not having to work in a coal mine. One of the things that "privilege" allows me is to support labor laws and workplace-safety regulations that mitigate the dangers to those who do work there. Of course, the coal barons and their political protectors call such efforts "anti-coal" and encourage anti-union and anti-regulation policies in the name of jobs, and the working stiffs with no other options (beyond getting out of coal country) go along with them. And die, quickly in a disaster or slowly of disease.
It costs to be safe, and a sane and rational and empathetic society spreads the costs around and looks after the vulnerable. And that means building in safeguards and stringing up safety nets before the storm hits. Which we have not been very good at.
You to see want decadence? Look at Wall Street. Or the Oval Office.
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Post by epaul on May 11, 2020 12:26:17 GMT -5
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Post by fauxmaha on May 11, 2020 12:32:47 GMT -5
I'm reminded of a line from Doonesbury (from way back when it was interesting): "Honey, ALL labor leaders are sensitive to the plight of the working class. That's how they avoid belonging to it."
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Post by billhammond on May 11, 2020 12:33:37 GMT -5
I see the ND State Fair has been cancelled. MN will no doubt do likewise before too long.
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Post by epaul on May 11, 2020 12:33:58 GMT -5
I embrace all the decadence I can. Never enough. And I have always put limits on my compassion. I spend enough on dog food to feed an African village for a year. Nevermind the six guitars and five trombones and 40' yacht. Ok, no yacht, but a damn nice Harley. Ok, no Harley, but I do have a bicycle. Two of them, matter of fact.
And it is all guilt free. (it helps to follow the Norse gods, they don't give a shit.)
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Post by theevan on May 11, 2020 12:45:06 GMT -5
Which vulnerables?
That's the rub.
I'm not wanting to choose which ox is to be gored. I'm wanting a sensible ("common sense" in Obama-talk) balance which is sorely lacking.
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Post by millring on May 11, 2020 12:45:59 GMT -5
Evan, one of the main lines of Ashbach's argument is precisely a kind of moral-emotional cost-accounting in life-and-death situations: whose life, at whose cost. He wants us to balance C-19 deaths against preventative measures that are "cramping lives and destroying livelihoods" and limiting "the very stuff of meaningful life." But he doesn't ONLY balance those.
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Post by aquaduct on May 11, 2020 13:22:41 GMT -5
He wants us to balance C-19 deaths against preventative measures that are "cramping lives and destroying livelihoods" and limiting "the very stuff of meaningful life." Clearly said with the callousness of someone who's never been unemployed with a family to feed.
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Post by Russell Letson on May 11, 2020 13:36:28 GMT -5
Peter, you don't know anything about me beyond what I choose to reveal, which is far from the fullness of my life experience, let alone my employment history or domestic arrangements.
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Post by aquaduct on May 11, 2020 13:47:02 GMT -5
Doesn't mean I'm wrong.
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Post by james on May 11, 2020 14:54:19 GMT -5
Deleted comment.
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Post by millring on May 11, 2020 15:04:55 GMT -5
We're just not framing it properly. We should understand that losing your job, your livelihood, your home, your business, your identity ...
makes you a hero.
Now I feel better.
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Post by aquaduct on May 11, 2020 15:10:31 GMT -5
We're just not framing it properly. We should understand that losing your job, your livelihood, your home, your business, your identity ... makes you a hero. Now I feel better. Trust me, that'll only last until your wife hears about it. (I'd put a smiley but it really ain't that funny).
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Post by millring on May 11, 2020 15:37:32 GMT -5
I have the "privilege" of not having to work in a coal mine. One of the things that "privilege" allows me is to support labor laws and workplace-safety regulations that mitigate the dangers to those who do work there. Of course, the coal barons and their political protectors call such efforts "anti-coal" and encourage anti-union and anti-regulation policies in the name of jobs, and the working stiffs with no other options (beyond getting out of coal country) go along with them. And die, quickly in a disaster or slowly of disease. How old are you?!
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Post by billhammond on May 12, 2020 16:27:55 GMT -5
OMG, I just got the latest update from our publisher and other high-level honchos, and while it sounds as though the company is going about things in a wise and thoughtful way, with employee health being placed on a high priority, I still gulped really, really hard when I got to the sentence that said the earliest they could envision workers returning to the office would be in September.
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Post by Village Idiot on May 12, 2020 16:38:30 GMT -5
In special Iowa Education Land, we're making two plans for special ed students this fall. One for what they call "brick and mortar" teaching, the other if things continue online until November.
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