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Post by Cornflake on Feb 16, 2021 23:09:37 GMT -5
In 2012, a legislative committee in Texas was assigned to look into the stability of the electric supply. The committee concluded, among other things, that it was vulnerable to weather extremes, including extreme cold. The committee made various recommendations for ways to reduce the vulnerability. I have a copy of the committee report and couldn't get through the jargon in the recommendations. In any event, I'm told, the report was ignored.
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Dub
Administrator
I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
Posts: 20,494 
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Post by Dub on Feb 17, 2021 0:11:26 GMT -5
In 2012, a legislative committee in Texas was assigned to look into the stability of the electric supply. The committee concluded, among other things, that it was vulnerable to weather extremes, including extreme cold. The committee made various recommendations for ways to reduce the vulnerability. I have a copy of the committee report and couldn't get through the jargon in the recommendations. In any event, I'm told, the report was ignored. That would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. |
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Post by epaul on Feb 17, 2021 2:14:39 GMT -5
Coal, gas, and nuke plants heat water to steam which spins turbines which produces electricity. I am sure you are accurately describing the current process, because gas is currently doing the job coal previously did in existing powerplants, making steam. However, steam is not mandatory in gas powered electricity generation. The company I used to work for had a division that made natural gas powered gensets using gas turbine engines to provide power on ships and as emergency backup in hospitals, etc. I am not knowledgeable enough to know if that technology could efficiently scale up to design new power generation plants that skipped steam. Maybe someone here is and can provide insight. Yep, you're right. Some gas-fired power plants incorporate steam in the generation process, others don't. There are currently two types of gas-fired power plants, simple cycle and combined cycle. Simple cycle plants are small and nimble (quick to power up and quick to power down) which makes them ideal for buffering the ins and outs of wind power. A simple cycle plant relies on what can be thought of as a big jet engine that runs on natural gas. The exhaust from the engine spins a turbine which creates the electricity. They are used to produce power quickly but typically only run for short periods to provide peak power when needed. Combined cycle plants are bigger and more efficient as they use the velocity of the engine's exhaust to spin a turbine (creating electricity) and the heat of the engine's exhaust to create steam which spins a turbine (creating electricity). Combined cycle plants are 24/7-type plants like coal and nuke plants, producing steady power for the long haul (but they are quicker to power up and down than coal and nuke) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas-fired_power_plant |
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Post by dradtke on Feb 17, 2021 8:13:10 GMT -5
In 2012, a legislative committee in Texas was assigned to look into the stability of the electric supply. The committee concluded, among other things, that it was vulnerable to weather extremes, including extreme cold. The committee made various recommendations for ways to reduce the vulnerability. I have a copy of the committee report and couldn't get through the jargon in the recommendations. In any event, I'm told, the report was ignored. Yes. A Texas friend explained it this way.
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Post by brucemacneill on Feb 17, 2021 8:28:28 GMT -5
In 2012, a legislative committee in Texas was assigned to look into the stability of the electric supply. The committee concluded, among other things, that it was vulnerable to weather extremes, including extreme cold. The committee made various recommendations for ways to reduce the vulnerability. I have a copy of the committee report and couldn't get through the jargon in the recommendations. In any event, I'm told, the report was ignored. Yes. A Texas friend explained it this way. Sue Al Gore. |
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Post by Marshall on Feb 17, 2021 10:06:16 GMT -5
Coal, gas, and nuke plants heat water to steam which spins turbines which produces electricity. I am sure you are accurately describing the current process, because gas is currently doing the job coal previously did in existing powerplants, making steam. However, steam is not mandatory in gas powered electricity generation. The company I used to work for had a division that made natural gas powered gensets using gas turbine engines to provide power on ships and as emergency backup in hospitals,etc. I am not knowledgeable enough to know if that technology could efficiently scale up to design new power generation plants that skipped steam. Maybe someone here is and can provide insight. Those Generators are good for small (relatively speaking) loads. But massive power plant systems all work as a steam engine. It's still the best (only?) way to scale up electric generation to wide spread levels. Coal, natural gas, and nukes are all different fires that heat water to steam. One of my projects for AT&T, we upgraded the old backup electric generation system in a network building. We put 6 Two Thousand KW generators in the basement. Massive project. Each diesel is the size of a locomotive. And that system only handled one building. It's a very big electricity user (Number 3 building in the world for AT&T in terms of phone traffic), but still just one building. |
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Post by Marshall on Feb 17, 2021 10:08:03 GMT -5
I'm glad I bought my little one while I could.  |
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Post by TKennedy on Feb 17, 2021 10:21:58 GMT -5
Sue Al Gore. Now there’s a Texas name if I ever heard one.
“You stay away from that Travis boy Sue Al, he ain’t no good”
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Post by epaul on Feb 17, 2021 11:48:16 GMT -5
I've been tracking MISO's energy mix, power load, and anticipated demand on and off all winter, and one thing above all else has made the biggest impression on me... Man, are they good!
Holy shit! The complexity of managing... gathering, sorting, evaluating, monitoring... the shifting data stream they are faced with daily and then on that basis balancing the power load on a grid that spans 12 states and one province is beyond incredible... whatever that is that lies beyond the incredible.
What stands out in particular for me is their weather forecasting and the accuracy of the anticipated power draw they base upon that forecast. What impresses is not the few times they are off but how amazingly often they get it right or nearly right. Temperature and wind. Six month out forecasts, one month out forecasts, one week ahead forecasts, one day ahead forecasts, five-minute ahead forecasts. And when you trace the lines, how closely the actual follows the anticipated... Wow!
The technological span that represents this country's electrical grid is incredible... power lines that were put up in 1950s on one end and a super computer performing a million calculations every nanosecond on the other with a MISO in the middle keeping a dozen plates spinning on a dozen sticks with one hand while juggling flaming torches with the other.
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Post by TKennedy on Feb 17, 2021 12:44:25 GMT -5
The lead guitar player in our Patsy band was the general manager of Big Stone Power CoOp out of Milbank SD. Really cool and smart guy. He is retired now but I should get his take on Texas.
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Post by dradtke on Feb 17, 2021 13:31:15 GMT -5
I've been tracking MISO's energy mix, power load, and anticipated demand on and off all winter, and one thing above all else has made the biggest impression on me... Man, are they good! Holy shit! The complexity of managing... gathering, sorting, evaluating, monitoring... the shifting data stream they are faced with daily and then on that basis balancing the power load on a grid that spans 12 states and one province is beyond incredible... whatever that is that lies beyond the incredible. What stands out in particular for me is their weather forecasting and the accuracy of the anticipated power draw they base upon that forecast. What impresses is not the few times they are off but how amazingly often they get it right or nearly right. Temperature and wind. Six month out forecasts, one month out forecasts, one week ahead forecasts, one day ahead forecasts, five-minute ahead forecasts. And when you trace the lines, how closely the actual follows the anticipated... Wow! The technological span that represents this country's electrical grid is incredible... power lines that were put up in 1950s on one end and a super computer performing a million calculations every nanosecond on the other with a MISO in the middle keeping a dozen plates spinning on a dozen sticks with one hand while juggling flaming torches with the other. Didn't we have somebody here on the forum who did that work in California? I don't remember who that was. |
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Post by epaul on Feb 17, 2021 13:33:23 GMT -5
Yes. He worked for the CA grid management system. I remember him talking about it and having no idea what he was talking about. He had a dog that he walked with by rivers and he built an electric guitar (a project he shared pictorially step by step with the forum). I can picture him sitting on his sofa with his dog and his guitar clear as a bell... but I can't pull up his name.
Jeff worked for a large Nebraska utility. Texas, CA, and Nebraska all have predominantly contained "in-state" independent grid systems.
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Post by billhammond on Feb 17, 2021 14:04:17 GMT -5
Jeff worked for a large Nebraska Wisconsin utility. Texas, CA, and Nebraska all have predominantly contained "in-state" independent grid systems. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 14:13:06 GMT -5
We are thinking about getting a back-up generator wired into the house. They ain't cheap...
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Post by dradtke on Feb 17, 2021 14:23:42 GMT -5
Yes. He worked for the CA grid management system. I remember him talking about it and having no idea what he was talking about. He had a dog that he walked with by rivers and he built an electric guitar (a project he shared pictorially step by step with the forum). I can picture him sitting on his sofa with his dog and his guitar clear as a bell... but I can't pull up his name. Jeff worked for a large Nebraska utility. Texas, CA, and Nebraska all have predominantly contained "in-state" independent grid systems. Yes, I remember back then Jeff saying how impossible it would be to micro-manage all these different unreliable power sources on and off the grid to get power to where it needed to be, and this guy saying, um, that's what I do every day. |
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Post by james on Feb 17, 2021 14:25:02 GMT -5
Greg B?
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Post by dradtke on Feb 17, 2021 14:25:40 GMT -5
I'm glad I bought my little one while I could. I should look into one of those. We have a well and pump. Power doesn't go out here very often, but when it does we can't flush the toilet more than once. |
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Post by TKennedy on Feb 17, 2021 14:33:34 GMT -5
The lead guitar player in our Patsy band was the general manager of Big Stone Power CoOp out of Milbank SD. Really cool and smart guy. He is retired now but I should get his take on Texas. He just texted me- Decades ago Texas separated its grid from the rest of the country. I don’t know all the reasons for that, but I suppose they thought they were self sufficient with all the gas and oil. It seems like there were only two or three interconnections to the national grid. Enter wind and solar. They are good sources of making electricity, but not reliability. Things like darkness and calm winds, and ice are a problem. Seems like they might have continued to build demand for commercial and residential electricity without enough baseload generation. I’d say the grid operators are doing what they have to do now to protect the system from melting down. It’s not just happening in Texas, though. All the way to North Dakota...but not as bad. |
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Post by epaul on Feb 17, 2021 15:00:23 GMT -5
Term: Baseload refers to power that is constant and predictable in output, the bottom line always there power. Coal, nuclear, and some gas are considered "baseload". Wind and solar are defined as "intermittent".
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Post by TKennedy on Feb 17, 2021 17:00:34 GMT -5
By Tuesday morning, the residents of Colorado City, Tex., were getting anxious. More than 24 hours had passed since a deadly Arctic blast knocked out power across the state, leaving them without heat or electricity in below-freezing temperatures. To make matters worse, many also lacked running water, forcing them to haul in heavy buckets of snow each time they needed to flush their toilets.
Residents turned to a community Facebook group to ask whether the small town planned to open warming shelters, while others wondered if firefighters could do their job without water. But when Colorado City’s mayor chimed in, it was to deliver a less-than-comforting message: The local government had no responsibility to help out its citizens, and only the tough would survive.
“No one owes you [or] your family anything,” Tim Boyd wrote on Tuesday in a now-deleted Facebook post, according to KTXS and KTAB/KRBC. “I’m sick and tired of people looking for a damn handout!”
“The City and County, along with power providers or any other service owes you NOTHINGNESS to oG!” he wrote on Facebook on Tuesday.
Boyd suggested that residents without electricity should simply “step up and come up with a game plan.” Those without running water could either deal with it, or “think outside of the box to survive and supply water to your family.” He did not offer any further guidance, such as where safe drinking water or reliable electricity could be found.
“Only the strong will survive and the weak will [perish],” he wrote.
Boyd’s tirade, which also demanded that “lazy” residents find their own ways of procuring water and electricity, immediately drew backlash. Later on Tuesday, Boyd announced his resignation and admitted that he could have “used better wording.”
Dangerous Arctic chill leaves more than a dozen dead, widespread power outages across the southern U.S.
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