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Post by drlj on Jan 24, 2024 9:28:46 GMT -5
Braces in a guitar don't add that much weight, really. So drilling holes in braces is more work and has little benefit. In aircraft, weight is king, so there's much more necessity in reducing it. Well, it isn’t the weight as much as flexibility. The top has to move freely and, at the same time, not implode. I wonder if they will start to use the same procedure on all their guitars at some point or if it will disappear completely. Guitar players are not a group that embraces change. I predict it won’t last, but I said the same thing about electricity.
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Post by Marshall on Jan 24, 2024 13:51:38 GMT -5
Solid braces and braces with holes, as in their video, are almost exactly the same stiffness. They weigh probably about 33% less.
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Post by drlj on Jan 24, 2024 14:59:44 GMT -5
Solid braces and braces with holes, as in their video, are almost exactly the same stiffness. They weigh probably about 33% less. I bow to your logic. I still predict it won’t last. $20 says they won’t be doing that 100 years from now.
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Post by coachdoc on Jan 24, 2024 15:47:30 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think those guys at Martin may have a future in the guitar business I'm contemplating a Martin for my 60th birthday (year after next), but I doubt it will be one of these new creations. I think the Inception looks like it has potential, though. OM-21 could be a favorite. I fervently suggest you play 1 before you purchase. It’s an eye opener.
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Post by coachdoc on Jan 24, 2024 15:49:11 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think those guys at Martin may have a future in the guitar business I'm contemplating a Martin for my 60th birthday (year after next), but I doubt it will be one of these new creations. I think the Inception looks like it has potential, though. OM-21 could be a favorite. I fervently suggest you play 1 before you purchase. It’s an eye opener. They always seem to have prettier than average rosewood back and sides.
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Jan 24, 2024 16:22:26 GMT -5
Solid braces and braces with holes, as in their video, are almost exactly the same stiffness. They weigh probably about 33% less. I bow to your logic. I still predict it won’t last. $20 says they won’t be doing that 100 years from now. Acoustic instruments of all kinds may be at a crossroads. Boutique and high-end instruments have to be made using techniques and materials that don’t require heavy capitalization. High-volume, industrialized production requires materials and designs suited for standardized quality and low labor input. There are probably lots of structural modifications which could reduce mass, improve sonic response, and enhance playability but they aren’t practical to use in either artisan shops or automated factories. I’m reminded that Composite Acoustics found success with their designs when they realized that CF guitars sounded better if they were braced using traditional patterns even though the braces weren’t needed for strength. Braces do stuff, and the tonal response of an instrument depends heavily on its bracing. Mass, orientation, strength, and flexibility all play a part. I’m guessing that most of the research done so far has been to analyze small modifications to traditional materials and designs. I doubt that many people are involved in radical, computer-aided analysis of materials and designs for acoustic instruments.
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Post by Shannon on Jan 24, 2024 18:12:38 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think those guys at Martin may have a future in the guitar business I'm contemplating a Martin for my 60th birthday (year after next), but I doubt it will be one of these new creations. I think the Inception looks like it has potential, though. OM-21 could be a favorite. I fervently suggest you play 1 before you purchase. It’s an eye opener. Yeah, I played a new OM-21 in ambertone at our local shop 2-3 weeks ago. It was a marvel. Something like that, or an OM-28, would be at the top of my list. If Martin were to make an OM-sized version of the Inception, I would certainly be interested in trying it, but the price is a little steep.
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Dub
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Post by Dub on Jan 24, 2024 18:30:54 GMT -5
I have only purchased one guitar that I didn’t have an immediate requirement for, that was my Kennedy archtop. If I bought a guitar because it was pretty, sounded nice, or was fun to play, I would now own more guitars than I have room to store.
Well I guess I didn’t actually have a requirement for the $20 Stella that was my first guitar, so maybe two.
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Post by david on Jan 24, 2024 19:57:03 GMT -5
I have only purchased one guitar that I didn’t have an immediate requirement for, that was my Kennedy archtop. If I bought a guitar because it was pretty, sounded nice, or was fun to play, I would now own more guitars than I have room to store. Well I guess I didn’t actually have a requirement for the $20 Stella that was my first guitar, so maybe two. Dub, you are right because I have never required a guitar, that is, I have ever only played for fun. And I just barely have room to store my guitars.
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Post by epaul on Jan 24, 2024 20:15:29 GMT -5
Looking back, I'm embarrassed by the number of guitars I bought during a five-year forum-fueled gas streak. Looking back, I'm embarrassed by the number of trombones I bought over a two-year stretch of brass gas. Actually, looking back, at darn near everything, I'm just a little embarrassed. I am very comforted that my wife, kids, and dog don't care and, well, like me. (my newly developed interest is high end speed boats may change that. These suckers are pricey!)
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Post by drlj on Jan 24, 2024 21:24:05 GMT -5
I have ample storage space. When we lived in the old house, I did not, so I sold some stuff I would have rather kept because there was no room. We were tripping over things. Now I have a room for nothing but guitars, so I am good!
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Post by howard lee on Jan 25, 2024 7:26:56 GMT -5
I don’t know. People have often commented that I have a hole in my head and I am fairly smart. My hole seems to be a naturally occurring phenomenon. I must say, you seem to have dated a variety of interesting individuals in your time. 😊😊 [...]
Living in New York provides one with a mind-boggling array of types to date.
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Post by Marshall on Jan 25, 2024 10:10:37 GMT -5
$20 says they won’t be doing that 100 years from now. You're on !
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Post by Marshall on Jan 25, 2024 10:17:51 GMT -5
I’m reminded that Composite Acoustics found success with their designs when they realized that CF guitars sounded better if they were braced using traditional patterns even though the braces weren’t needed for strength. Braces do stuff, and the tonal response of an instrument depends heavily on its bracing. Mass, orientation, strength, and flexibility all play a part. I agree. But I didn't like CA necks (surprising, huh?). But strangely enough I've found a cheap Chinese Cf guitar, Enya X3 Pro Mini, that has a center hole AND X-bracing cast into the CF top. (Or melted into it or something). And it souonds like a real guitar, albeit a small one like a GS-Mini. And I like it.
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Post by Marshall on Jan 25, 2024 10:24:35 GMT -5
OM-21 could be a favorite. I fervently suggest you play 1 before you purchase. It’s an eye opener. Yeah, I played a new OM-21 in ambertone at our local shop 2-3 weeks ago. It was a marvel. Something like that, or an OM-28, would be at the top of my list. If Martin were to make an OM-sized version of the Inception, I would certainly be interested in trying it, but the price is a little steep. I'm still tickled by the Eastman I saw at CHicago Music Exchange It played real nice. The finish didn't have the luster of the promo photos, so I walked. But, gee, for $349 it's pretty hard to match. - So I've been surfing on-line and somebody in western Illinois is selling a used one for $278 that looks a little better in the photos. I'll give it another week, then maybe I'll pop for that, for no damn good reason.
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Post by drlj on Jan 25, 2024 11:50:19 GMT -5
$20 says they won’t be doing that 100 years from now. You're on ! We should each give $20 to epaul for him to hold until 2124 which he can then give to the winner.
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Post by Marshall on Jan 25, 2024 11:53:50 GMT -5
Ok. You first.
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Post by amanajoe on Jan 25, 2024 12:10:01 GMT -5
Typical Martin, "New for acoustic guitars in general". Boldly going where so many others have gone before by stealing the ideas of many small luthiers and now it is all their great new idea. Hell, Ryan guitars was doing the laser cut outs in the bracing years ago. I was using the cnc to do the same shortly after that. It isn't about physical weight, but about lowering the vibrating mass of the top without sacrificing structural integrity. When I moved away from the typical Martin X-Bracing to the Radial X-Bracing, I realized that I only needed to lower the mass of the main X and none of the flying or radial braces, they were as low mass as they already could be. To be quite frank, the lasering they did looks more ornamental than useful.
Shocking, they decided to try walnut, I guess my walnut prices are going to go up again now since everyone will be on the walnut band wagon now that Martin is doing it. I couldn't sell a walnut or cherry guitar 20 years ago because it was a "terrible tonewood" even though every person that picked up the guitars said they sounded wonderful and played beautifully. Maybe I should go to the people that got them and charge them Martin pricing now.
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Post by amanajoe on Jan 25, 2024 12:15:39 GMT -5
Here are some pics from Ryan Guitars. He makes Tall Slender braces with a serious amount of mass removed in the main x.
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