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Post by Russell Letson on Jul 14, 2024 12:23:27 GMT -5
Hey, what if he's the Devil Incarnate? What then? What if he's a Republican devil-worshipping pedophile? What if he's holding the Mona Lisa, a kitten, and your grandma hostage in his lair under the dead volcano?
My post is just my quick reactions to the range of responses and possible practical outcomes of yesterday's events. It's not my version of Project 2025 or Agenda 47 or even the op-ed page of [insert favorite lefty news outlet here].
You want a serious answer to a whataboutish question? Dire and irreversible actions had better be thoroughly justified by equally dire and irreversible present threats, and "justification" includes a level of certainty that even a smart fellow like me might have trouble achieving. Many people saw the threat posed by the Nazis in 1930, and quite a few were willing to engage in street violence to oppose it. But most people were uncertain of just how bad it was going to get--or perhaps just hopeful that the worst would not happen. So they waited and hoped.
We, with the benefit of history, can trace pretty exactly the lines of causality and accident that led to Hitler's Gotterdamerung. But that's a luxury that people caught in the there and then did not have. Except, of course, the deluded or the pathologically driven or the plain old crazy. None of which, I hope, describes me, sitting in the here and now and sweating it out.
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Post by millring on Jul 14, 2024 13:02:04 GMT -5
Exactly. It's not escalating the violent rhetoric if it's the truth. It's not over the top if Trump really is Hitler. And in the words of Barry Goldwater "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice."
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Post by John B on Jul 14, 2024 13:03:00 GMT -5
Exactly. It's not escalating the violent rhetoric if it's the truth. It's not over the top if Trump really is Hitler. And in the words of Barry Goldwater "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice." That's pretty much the opposite of what I took from Russell's post. |
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Post by Cornflake on Jul 14, 2024 13:26:57 GMT -5
Somewhere in this conversation, I think I missed a turn.
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Post by millring on Jul 14, 2024 13:46:43 GMT -5
Exactly. It's not escalating the violent rhetoric if it's the truth. It's not over the top if Trump really is Hitler. And in the words of Barry Goldwater "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice." That's pretty much the opposite of what I took from Russell's post. Then maybe you missed this step in the progression. "And from the LA Times: "Many Republicans quickly blamed the violence on Biden and his allies, arguing that sustained attacks on Trump as a threat to democracy have created a toxic environment." Since one of the strongest and most effective arguments against Trump is that he does indeed offer a threat to democracy, any let's-cool-it advice has the effect of defanging Trump's opponents." |
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Post by billhammond on Jul 14, 2024 14:41:14 GMT -5
Exactly the opposite of what he wanted to say:
Rep. Mark Green, a Tennessee Republican who chairs the House Committee on Homeland Security, sent a letter to U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas on Sunday raising questions about the shooting and demanding information about the former president's Secret Service protection.
''The seriousness of this security failure and chilling moment in our nation's history cannot be understated,'' Green wrote in the letter.
He meant "cannot be overstated."
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Post by howard lee on Jul 14, 2024 14:45:55 GMT -5
My old man photographed the rising real estate mogul
in the early 1980s, before all the brouhaha. Well, most of it, anyway.
I like the fact that this image is slightly out of focus.
Library of Congress/Bernard Gotfryd Collection
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Post by billhammond on Jul 14, 2024 14:51:24 GMT -5
My old man photographed the rising real estate mogul
in the early 1980s, before all the brouhaha. Well, most of it, anyway. Library of Congress/Bernard Gotfryd Collection
Nothing phallic about that image. |
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Post by howard lee on Jul 14, 2024 14:54:29 GMT -5
My old man photographed the rising real estate mogul
in the early 1980s, before all the brouhaha. Well, most of it, anyway.
Library of Congress/Bernard Gotfryd Collection
Nothing phallic about that image.
It's completely avoidable.
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Post by John B on Jul 14, 2024 14:55:32 GMT -5
That's pretty much the opposite of what I took from Russell's post. Then maybe you missed this step in the progression. "And from the LA Times: "Many Republicans quickly blamed the violence on Biden and his allies, arguing that sustained attacks on Trump as a threat to democracy have created a toxic environment." Since one of the strongest and most effective arguments against Trump is that he does indeed offer a threat to democracy, any let's-cool-it advice has the effect of defanging Trump's opponents." Umm, nope. |
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Post by TKennedy on Jul 14, 2024 16:41:10 GMT -5
Exactly the opposite of what he wanted to say: Rep. Mark Green, a Tennessee Republican who chairs the House Committee on Homeland Security, sent a letter to U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas on Sunday raising questions about the shooting and demanding information about the former president's Secret Service protection. ''The seriousness of this security failure and chilling moment in our nation's history cannot be understated,'' Green wrote in the letter. He meant "cannot be overstated." Nothing would be too good to say about rep. Green’s statement. |
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Post by aquaduct on Jul 14, 2024 16:52:24 GMT -5
I'm always kind of stunned by the stupid comparisons to Hitler. I mean, seriously, Trump's already been President for 4 years and did a fine job, particularly compared to Senile Joe.
He left with Melania when his term was up just like normal.
He did pursue questions about corruption in the election, but then again, there were a bunch of questions about it that have never really been satisfactorily answered by anybody. And, no, "we looked into it and couldn't find anything" is not a real answer.
And now we've experienced the Biden Administration which has simply been godawful.
And now if Trump wins again, he's going to round up his opponents and have them shot.
And the lame blurt of "Hitler, doncha know!?!" graces the lips of supposedly sane and intelligent people.
But that's alright. Y'all just sacrificed any real claim to another term. Enjoy.
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Post by John B on Jul 14, 2024 17:45:48 GMT -5
I'm always kind of stunned by the stupid comparisons to Hitler. I mean, seriously, Trump's already been President for 4 years and did a fine job, particularly compared to Senile Joe. He left with Melania when his term was up just like normal. He did pursue questions about corruption in the election, but then again, there were a bunch of questions about it that have never really been satisfactorily answered by anybody. And, no, "we looked into it and couldn't find anything" is not a real answer. And now we've experienced the Biden Administration which has simply been godawful. And now if Trump wins again, he's going to round up his opponents and have them shot. And the lame blurt of "Hitler, doncha know!?!" graces the lips of supposedly sane and intelligent people. But that's alright. Y'all just sacrificed any real claim to another term. Enjoy. The economy under Biden's administration has been stellar. The investment in America, which Trump poorly gave lip service to, has been incredible under Biden. Even Republican congresspeople have been lining up to take credit for local investment they voted against. "Godawful" is the wrong descriptor. The rest of first four lines of your post is just wrong. |
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Post by aquaduct on Jul 14, 2024 19:09:37 GMT -5
I'm always kind of stunned by the stupid comparisons to Hitler. I mean, seriously, Trump's already been President for 4 years and did a fine job, particularly compared to Senile Joe. He left with Melania when his term was up just like normal. He did pursue questions about corruption in the election, but then again, there were a bunch of questions about it that have never really been satisfactorily answered by anybody. And, no, "we looked into it and couldn't find anything" is not a real answer. And now we've experienced the Biden Administration which has simply been godawful. And now if Trump wins again, he's going to round up his opponents and have them shot. And the lame blurt of "Hitler, doncha know!?!" graces the lips of supposedly sane and intelligent people. But that's alright. Y'all just sacrificed any real claim to another term. Enjoy. The economy under Biden's administration has been stellar. The investment in America, which Trump poorly gave lip service to, has been incredible under Biden. Even Republican congresspeople have been lining up to take credit for local investment they voted against. "Godawful" is the wrong descriptor. The rest of first four lines of your post is just wrong. As of last night, it really doesn't matter anymore. |
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Post by howard lee on Jul 15, 2024 7:42:52 GMT -5
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Post by Marshall on Jul 15, 2024 7:57:32 GMT -5
The son of a friend is a retired Air Force guy already. He lives in Oklahoma now. He's pretty belligerent right wing these days. We're facebook friends, because I know his family and was at his wedding reception. I knew him when he was a boy. But now days he posts some awful stuff on facebook. Even his parents are appalled. But I've stayed "friends" because I knew him as a kid. Sometimes I mildly retort to his angry posts. His mom actually encouraged me to do that. But I'm done with him now after he posted this:  |
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Post by TKennedy on Jul 15, 2024 8:14:45 GMT -5
I was just about to post that the conspiracy topic dejour will probably be that the Secret Service set this up.
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Post by epaul on Jul 15, 2024 9:37:02 GMT -5
If the Secret Service, or anyone else, set it up, Trump would be dead. There is no need for conspiracy when "fuck up" explains it so fully. "Fuck up" explains so much so well, there is seldom a need for any other explanation for nearly anything ever.
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Post by majorminor on Jul 15, 2024 9:46:15 GMT -5
If the Secret Service, or anyone else, set it up, Trump would be dead. There is no need for conspiracy when "fuck up" explains it so fully. "Fuck up" explains so much so well, there is seldom a need for any other explanation for nearly anything ever. Yep. I’m guessing it was a short period of time between the kid getting on the roof and shooting and the sniper reacting to that had him down quickly. Only criticism I can muster is if you look at the Google earth photo of the scene the building the kid was on fairly screamed “assassins here”. |
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Jul 15, 2024 10:43:48 GMT -5
When George H.W. Bush was president, one joke was that if anything happened to him the Secret Service had standing orders to shoot Dan Quayle.
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