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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Sept 28, 2006 23:46:46 GMT -5
I like this new place. I like the people here. I'm glad VI thought enough of me to issue an invite. I'm real sure I'll like logging into threads without seeing the strife and name calling.
But I'm pretty bummed about abandoning ship over at T3. I don't feel any joy at leaving fellow travelers, even rude and uncouth ones behind.
I'm not proposing that the unnamed few be welcomed here, I'm just feeling really conflicted and wondering if anyone else felt that way.
Mike
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Post by iamjohnne on Sept 28, 2006 23:53:06 GMT -5
Mike,
I know I do. But I also know that I was feeling kinda bummed reading the posts over the last few weeks. This week just seemed to get worse and worse.
I am glad to be here.
Johnne
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Post by j on Sept 28, 2006 23:55:21 GMT -5
I do.
I really hold no grudge to those left there, and I felt a need to let them know that. All the people who piss me off are actually here...but hopefully they won't be as hostile towards me as they've been in the past - and if they will, I can finally call out for the mod help.
HOWEVER
I understand that a lot of peole HERE have been hurt in exchanges with some of those who now call themselves "the banned" (whatev...). I want to make clear that I respect their hope to keep these "offenders" at bay...for now.
Finally, I don't understand the matter with Heidi. She's no weirder or more annoying than me.
J
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Post by Cornflake on Sept 28, 2006 23:56:25 GMT -5
Mike, I suspect lots of us feel that way to some extent. The problem was the lack of any acceptable alternative.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2006 3:36:43 GMT -5
I sympathize, Mike. I don't feel good about it either. I've never felt good about being part of any exclusive group and to a very small degree that's what we've become.
All that considered, I am convinced that any attempts to return the forum to a more civil nature were thwarted by continuous insults and some pretty ill feelings all around.
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Post by timfarney on Sept 29, 2006 5:53:07 GMT -5
Yep. When I went over there to post the message to make sure no stragglers beyond the unnamed few felt abandoned, I felt uncomfortable -- every time I named (or referred to) the unnamed few. And I'll tell you what: As far as I'm concerned they are welcome. It's the behaviors that caused all of this that are not welcome.
I've reached the point that, f it were up to me alone, I'd invite them, after we establish what the rules are. And I'd be happy to take an opening shot at that:
1) No personal attacks
2) No baiting
3) No name-calling, and that includes the groups and beliefs individuals belong to as well as the individuals themselves
4) The fluid, situational definitions of all of the above are at the sole discretion of the moderators and on-line discussions of the moderators decisions are the biggest no of all. Action against rules violations go from notification to temporary posting ban to permanent total ban, also at the discretion of the moderators.
If anybody thinks that gives moderators too much power, we could form a committe that discusses alll potential bans with the moderators before any action is taken. Communicate those rules and enforce them, and I'd be happy to invite anyone here. That's beginning to sound a bit like government (sorry d), but I think it might be necessary. If we allow online discussion of moderator's decisions, it'll get worse, not better.
Thoughts?
Tim
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Post by Doug on Sept 29, 2006 6:06:12 GMT -5
not my preference Tim but I'll go along with what ever is the base.
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Post by timfarney on Sept 29, 2006 6:18:11 GMT -5
not my preference Tim but I'll go along with what ever is the base. I know, d. I really wish it wasn't necessary, but I'm afraid it is. It became necessary over at TTT or we wouldn't all be here. My preference is that it never becomes necessary here. But it needs to be there, just in case. Well, let me rephrase that -- something needs to be there, not Farney's shot at a rulebook on a Friday morning after just one cup of coffee. Tim
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Post by sekhmet on Sept 29, 2006 6:41:52 GMT -5
well, I can see how you feel about it Mike - I've been feeling like that about TTT for weeks on end, as I watched the simian behaviour worsen and watched headache's rambling posts get longer and more fantastic. I have seen a headache attack on a number of occasions, and I knew it was just a matter of time before I got both bores. And didn't I just? I wondering if he's breathing yet.
I am sorry to leave heid, and wish she had not been so obviously aligned with headache.
I meant it when I told Ethel what I thought of her nastiness, and likewise headache. I never did snap at Arch, no matter how much he hounded my every statement.
So yes, I am sad to leave Heid behind. But we brought TTT with us. And I'm so glad. When I left the forum I thought I was closing the door on a big part of my life. I'm grateful that it isn't so.
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Post by Cribbs on Sept 29, 2006 7:31:17 GMT -5
Just an FYI, as of now, there are ZERO names or IP addresses in the ban list.
We have open doors, but we also have rules, and people who break those rules will be escorted to the city walls and the door shut behind them.
It's not that we are against free speech or the people's right to say what they want, we ust seem to be in accord that we want to keep this place an enjoyable place to visit. When personal attacks are being lobbed around, it makes it hard to enjoy it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2006 7:34:44 GMT -5
Just an FYI, as of now, there are ZERO names or IP addresses in the ban list. We have open doors, but we also have rules, and people who break those rules will be escorted to the city walls and the door shut behind them. It's not that we are against free speech or the people's right to say what they want, we ust seem to be in accord that we want to keep this place an enjoyable place to visit. When personal attacks are being lobbed around, it makes it hard to enjoy it. FWIW, which may be 0, I've had no problem in banning certain people from my Yahoo groups, based on prior behavior. These groups are very fragile, and it doesn't take a lot to make things spiral south. My 2 cents.... El
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Post by billhammond on Sept 29, 2006 7:35:25 GMT -5
Derriel -- Kindly check your e-mail, sir.
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Post by timfarney on Sept 29, 2006 7:56:33 GMT -5
Good to see you here, El.
Tim
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Post by Supertramp78 on Sept 29, 2006 8:02:13 GMT -5
In an ideal world there would never be a need to ban anyone. There really wasn't the need to do it on the old board. The issue was when people posted things that really upset people and when informed of that fact took the position of, "So?" Or when multiple people pointed ot that something you did was driving people away, the answer was still basically,"So?"
Some people work and play well with others. Some people don't. The good news is they are often really easy to spot. I've seen boards (the UMGF comes to mind) where a thread could get yanked if you forgot to put a Cap M on Martin. I would hope that the absolute harshest action taken by a moderator on this board is to lock a thread and as I said yesterday, I hope I never have to actually do anything.
So before we start thinking up rules and regs to deal with issues we don't have yet, let's see how things go. Considering the fact that everyone is here because they needed a breath of fresh air, I say we let the air clear for a few days. Emotions are still a bit frayed and times like these are not good for making any long term decisions about anything.
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Post by billhammond on Sept 29, 2006 8:04:13 GMT -5
[size=5]TRAMP FOR PRESIDENT[/size]
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Post by John B on Sept 29, 2006 8:14:22 GMT -5
Frankly, I disagree. I don't really want to see a core group of people here. Arch and Ethel, and a few others, worked very hard to get their own forum, and made the excellent suggestion that those who didn't like the way it was start their own forum.
I don't want to keep rehashing what recently happened, and I certainly don't want to continue to bring this up. If anyone wanted to know any details, or wanted to discuss anything with me, I'd be happy to discuss offline.
My opinion will likely change over the next few weeks, months, etc. But I don't care about naming names, or if someone feels uncomfortable because we did exactly what they thought we should do.
They've got their forum, we're free to visit it.
The guidelines that have been proposed, by the way, are a great start.
I don't feel any joy, either, but it's not about feeling joy for me.
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Post by timfarney on Sept 29, 2006 8:26:38 GMT -5
Great post, Tramp. I agree about 200%. I hope there's never a need to ban anyone and the moderators feel like Maytag repairmen. I'll drop it now until the administrator and the mods get some ground rules figured out. Did I tell you about my new guitar? Yeah...I guess I already did, huh? Tim
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Post by Supertramp78 on Sept 29, 2006 8:29:31 GMT -5
sure is purdy tho
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2006 8:30:27 GMT -5
nevermind
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Post by majorminor on Sept 29, 2006 8:32:06 GMT -5
I share the feelings Mike. In some ways it seems like the easy way out to set up shop over here. I also suspect that the world, especially the internet world, is not a perfect place and this site will eventually experience many of the same issues eventually. But hey - for someone like me who is a more casual participant watcha gonna do? I'm too involved in the folks and happenings here to unplug cold turkey so you just go whatever direction the wind is blowing. A good portion of the initial bandwidth over here was spent venting spleens and I hope that has run it's course. If we want a new forum that gets back to being a mostly positive and uplifting influence I'm all for that, but let's end the name calling then and move forward. My .02
Mm
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