Arranging the song - intros, harmonies, etc.

[Gypsy Picker]

As I've been working up my songs for recording, I've been paying far more attention to details I generally neglect, or save until last, during the writing process. I guess these details would all fall under the term "arrangement": when each instrument comes in (and parts they play), which lines get harmonies (and what sounds/words and notes are vocalized), etc.

What I find so interesting is how these seemingly small details make such a big impact on the overall feel and quality of the song. Songs that I have considered "B" quality are granted new life and now feel like "A" songs. Perhaps it's just the novelty of the arranged parts, but I tend to think it's really more than that. For strict soloists, I suppose the measure has to be whether the song stands on it's own with only your guitar and voice. I've always preferred playing in an ensemble, but I don't consider that when writing a song. Now that these songs are arranged, many sound threadbare to me when I play them alone.

So it's a trade-off... it's really wonderful to hear my songs in the new light of "completion" - and the arrangement process is equally rewarding as we all discover together what really works, but it seems to come at the price of the song no longer being the self-contained solo piece that I could perform.

Thoughts?

[Deleted]

As a stricly solo guy, I don't have to think of arrangements in terms of harmonies, and such, but I do think of form and content a great deal. For a while now I've been getting bored and dissatisfied with the verse / chorus / midde-8 paradigm and have been playing around with ideas to do with form and looking at dance forms, rondos, minuets and the like. Some of that stuff needs a certain facility with keys and modulations which has got me tied up in knots sometimes. That's what arranging means to me.

The net effect, so far, is that much of my new stuff has extended guitar parts without vocal accompaniment ( ). Someone said that some of my things don't know if they are songs or instrumentals. Yes, I guess. But I'm still feeling my way and I'll get something more coherent sooner or later.

Like you, I reappraise some old moribund songs from time to time so see if I can tickle some spark of life from them. It's a very rare event that I can wholesale. It's more often that I'll cannabalise an idea for something completely new. The wierdest thing has been to rearrange some old flatpicking songs for fingerstyle, because I no longer use a pick. I'm rambling.

If I had to arrange something for ensemble, I think I'd have to prune some of my guitar back less it all sound a jumble and congested. I think my solo playing style has evolved to compensate for the lack of other players in the mix. Anyway no-one will play with me because I can't keep time.

[Cornflake]

We've discussed this some in another thread, though maybe not in songwriting. Scott, I think I reognize the issue you're addressing. I've struggled with it some on my current recording project. I'll see if I can ramble out a coherent comment.

My situation is different because I play in a group. In a different way, I'm use to arranging songs for different instruments. Since we play improvisationally, often that consists of nothing more than "Charley will take the instrumental break and Rick will take the outro." And the "arrangement" when performing is limited by the fact that I can't play two instruments at once even if they would both sound good on the song.

I've learned the hard way that you don't want many completely improvised solos on a recording. Some won't be very good. Then you're in a pickle. Plus, I can play several instruments at the same time via multitracking. So the arranging is an altogether different thing. So far, all the instrumentation on this project has been played by me, and it has all been carefully planned.

At the start of the current project, I had a drum machine and bass and an electric guitar on a lot of numbers. In fairly short order I felt estranged from the results. They sounded cool in some ways but whose music was this? It didn't sound like mine. I threw out several completed tracks that the engineer liked and started over with simpler and less slick approaches.

I'm not of the school that thinks a guitar and a voice are all you ever need. A whole CD of that gets pretty sonically repetitive, just as a full set of it can and often does. Changes of timbre can work wonders.

I also don't think you are somehow honor bound to play the thing just as you would live. You have to put up with some limitations when playing live that don't exist in the studio. Why subject yourself to an artifical handicap? I guess my working approach is to record it the way I would do it live if we had all the backup musicians I could ever want.

Is that a response?

[Gypsy Picker]

Good responses both of you. Perhaps I was less than clear in that, although we are rehearsing for recording the CD, we are recording the CD essentially live in the studio, and thus the arrangements are also as they'll be performed.

I'm not suggesting there is a right and wrong here, only sharing my recent observations that:

1) when you start paying close attention to the arrangement of intros, outros, harmonies, instrumentation, and the like, the end result can be like a whole new song.

2) the whole new song is now something you can no longer play solo (or don't want to).

3) the process of arranging these parts with the band is wonderfully rewarding and perhaps my new favorite part of songwriting.

I guess I also may be suggesting that you may benefit from revisiting some of your own old songs and see if working up intros and outros (even if your a soloist) breathes new life into them. It's like an artist framing their finished canvas.

[Cornflake]

I was probably obtuse. I certainly agree with all of that.

[Doug]

I also don't think you are somehow honor bound to play the thing just as you would live. You have to put up with some limitations when playing live that don't exist in the studio. Why subject yourself to an artifical handicap? I guess my working approach is to record it the way I would do it live if we had all the backup musicians I could ever want.

I'm sure you are right on that, Flake.

I got a dose of what the other side thinks Tue. talking with the girl (ok lady 7 kids) who does the booking for 5 bars and 2 festivals in Cedar Key and she was bitching about the difference in the CD and the live. She won't hire any band from the CD because last year she did two bands from their CD for the seafood festival and both stunk and were nothing like their CD.

Just looking at it from a different perspective.

On the arranging even with a duo there is a lot of arrangement and it does add a lot to the songs. I even find that there is a lot of arrangement to doing a solo because I don't do anything the way it was written.

[Cornflake]

Scott, I thought about your comment as I was working on a song this morning. Its melody originated as a countermelody I came up with while arranging another song. It didn't actually work that well in the other song but it was very pleasing on its own. Ain't the first time that's happened.

[billhammond]

Scott -- I experienced a fair amount of what you are talking about when I did both of my CDs, although probably more so on the first one, as it had singing, overdubs, other instruments, etc., on many tracks.

But I sure get what you are saying. There comes a time when the recording date is near and you have a general idea of what you want to record but you also become keenly aware of a need to make each of those songs stand out somehow.

On "Speechless," it was especially important to think that way, because I had saddled myself with the task of doing only solo guitar instrumentals on the whole thing.

So, I used .......

-- Different guitars
-- Different tunings
-- Different tempos and moods
-- Different levels of attack and expression

And I tried as much as possible to stay away from too strict a song pattern, at least to avoid playing any of the "verses" the same way more than once in the tune. On "Fall Creek," I did something mildly radical for the third "verse" -- I came up to it and basically stopped, then played that verse verrrrrrrrrrrry slowly, revving up at the end, which led to the out-tro and the closing.

Maybe a little contrived, but not as boring as it might have been.

So I get what you are saying -- a lot of things that sound nice when you play them at home or even at gigs can just sorta lie there on a recording, so the challenge is to enliven them and keep each piece developing from start to finish whenever possible.

I'm still learning this and I am finding that every tune I arrange these days has a higher set of standards, which is why my next CD is probably years away.

[Cornflake]

"So I get what you are saying -- a lot of things that sound nice when you play them at home or even at gigs can just sorta lie there on a recording...."

Right, Bill. One obvious reason is that the performance doesn't get replayed over and over. (Of course, for the most part neither do my recordings.)

[Marshall]

I think externalizing a song is a good thing. By this, I mean record it in some fashion and listent to it as an outsider would. The writing process is an interanlizing thing. You (I) become totally wrapped up in the guitar/lyric/voice thing. It's like giving birth (in a silly sort of way). You (I) are very focused.

It's nice, then to step back and listen to it with objective ears. It's only then that I can hear harmonies and/or other things going on. Somethimes I make a recording and drive around for a week or so listening to it in the car. I practise harmonies with it. Sometimes the tune changes a lot in color because of that. I don't venture too far afield of my original concept.

Once I had an arrangement of a tune worked out by a professional guy for a special presentation. His a big production kinda guy. It was very interesting what he did. In a rousing tune, he stopped the biggness and did an accapella chorus of 4 part harmony with a cello playing an ominous counter part bass line. Then the final chorus brought the a whole band together again. It was very interesting and differnt than what I would do. It would have been nice to get even a rough recording of that. But it was not done.