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NFL
Dec 12, 2011 9:17:44 GMT -5
Post by omaha on Dec 12, 2011 9:17:44 GMT -5
That one is hard to figure.
I mean, there's always a ref with his eyes on the QB (or at least in the backfield), isn't there? And its not like it was a borderline infraction. Dude had a full handful of facemask there.
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NFL
Dec 12, 2011 10:53:52 GMT -5
Post by theevan on Dec 12, 2011 10:53:52 GMT -5
Nobody watched my Saints almost lose to a rookie quarterback? What an ending! (Shhhhhhhh, but did you see the two or three defensive holds the Saints committed in the end zone on that final play...that weren't called?)
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NFL
Dec 12, 2011 11:40:30 GMT -5
Post by epaul on Dec 12, 2011 11:40:30 GMT -5
Tebow as quarterback?
I guess we'll see. Running quarterbacks succeed wonderfully at the high school and college level. And every so often, one comes along and looks like he will succeed at the NFL level. Michael Vick turned the league upside down for a couple years, and maybe he will again. But injuries (and jail time) seem to have slowed him down. There are more in the wings, like Freeman and Garrad, and more coming with every draft (like RJ3).
It was fun watching Joe Webb yesterday (came in mid-way through the 2nd half for the Vikes). The Lions had no answer for him. He ran for 101 yards, including a 60 yard romp for a TD. I haven't seen the breakdown yet, but he must have averaged close to 20 yards a carry. His passing accuracy was on the down side of so-so, but he kept plays alive with his feet which allowed receivers to get wide open, eventually. So, maybe he wasn't hitting them in stride, but if a guy was standing all alone, there was a fair chance he was able to get the ball to him.
Same deal with Tebow. Maybe not a pin-point, hit them in stride with quick lighting strike release, but if he stretches out the play, throws on the run, and keeps the defense frustrated and dog-ass tired, it's a different game with different rules, and by these rules in this game, he is doing great. And doing great is doing great.
The official line on running quarterbacks, supposedly, is that they get hurt. They have too many vulnerable body parts. A running back only has to keep his legs going. A running QB has to keep his feet, his shoulders, his arm, and his fingers all in good shape in order to function. OK, maybe a simplification, but there are running parts and passing parts, and a running QB has to keep both sets of parts working, which can be a real bugger.
It is also true that any quarterback can get hurt at any time, but so far, the only running/keep the play alive with your feet type quarterback who enjoyed a long career was Fran Tarkenton. And while Fran holds the record for yards via feet, he was strongly on the keep the play alive side of the equation. He didn't run downfield and take full-speed hits.
If I were building an offense around a running quarterback, I would want to have three of them on hand. And there are enough of them in the college game that stockpiling them would be a doable proposition.
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NFL
Dec 12, 2011 11:53:01 GMT -5
Post by millring on Dec 12, 2011 11:53:01 GMT -5
Tebow as quarterback? The official line on running quarterbacks, supposedly, is that they get hurt. They have too many vulnerable body parts. This does make a certain amount of sense. And I've seen failures from my favorite Bobby Douglass to the current day. But it seems as though: 1. The acceptance of this notion has dictated play to such an extent that teams aren't even willing to try a running quarterback -- they just accept the status quo. 2. I'm not sure there's ever really been objective analysis of what it really means to have another offensive threat like a running quarterback. To me, it's amazing the amount of times the field opens up for a quarterback like it does for no other player on the field. I understand this is in part because the defense knows that it doesn't have to defend against a quarterback run, but that cuts both ways. If it did, it might also open up the field for the other backs. I just find it a curious dismissal.
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NFL
Dec 12, 2011 12:20:47 GMT -5
Post by omaha on Dec 12, 2011 12:20:47 GMT -5
Ironic, isn't it, just how progressive Tebow is proving to be.
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NFL
Dec 12, 2011 12:23:44 GMT -5
Post by theevan on Dec 12, 2011 12:23:44 GMT -5
It's smart coaching. Instead of trying to coach Tebow into a typical NFL offense, the offense was designed around Tebow and the rest of the players. Defenses built to cover the NFL spread can't deal with the power I
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NFL
Dec 12, 2011 12:38:48 GMT -5
Post by epaul on Dec 12, 2011 12:38:48 GMT -5
Yes, a mobile quarterback that can run can absolutely ruin a defense. When the QB is a running threat, the defense has to assign an athletic linebacker to stand in front of him and watch him, which limits the moves you can make with one of your best linebackers; the sucker is tied to QB with a leash.
And if a QB is elusive, it is hell to be a pass rusher. They can't tee off on a tackling dummy. Instead they are running around in circles with their tongues hanging out geting blindsided by chortling offensive linemen.
So why aren't there more? Maybe there should be. Or not. Maybe NFL decider types know what they are doing, or maybe it is just a copy cat league, and until a couple running QBs lead their teams to repeated playoff success, they will remain a novelty.
Michael Vick has come close to redefining the position. Twice. Yet, he has also reinforced the arguments against running QB's. If you want to bet the future, mobile QBs that can run look like a good bet to me. More Tebows and Vicks, fewer Peyton Mannings, if for no other reason than college programs are producing more running QB's than stand in the pocket types. It is easier to find marvelous, general-purpose athletes than find skilled, dedicated, and practiced passers. And it will get easier.
Maybe Tebow will be the one to tip the bucket. Or maybe it will be Joe Webb.
Or maybe the running QB will continue be a tantalizing pot at the end of the rainbow, and pudgy, non-athelets like Matthew Stafford with strong arms and quick eyes and minds, and not much else, will continue to do best in the toughest spot in all of sportsdom.
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NFL
Dec 12, 2011 12:46:09 GMT -5
Post by epaul on Dec 12, 2011 12:46:09 GMT -5
(take a look at Matthew Stafford. He looks like he should be golfing in his sandals with a beer-laden golf cart, not banging in the NFL. He is a pudge. With a strong arm. And quick eyes and mind.)
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NFL
Dec 12, 2011 13:06:35 GMT -5
Post by AlanC on Dec 12, 2011 13:06:35 GMT -5
Nobody watched my Saints almost lose to a rookie quarterback? What an ending! (Shhhhhhhh, but did you see the two or three defensive holds the Saints committed in the end zone on that final play...that weren't called?)I was amazed at that bad spot the Titans got on that quarterback sneak. I thought he had it by a foot or two. Maybe the Saint's are about to go on another lucky streak like they did their Superbowl year.
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NFL
Dec 12, 2011 13:26:18 GMT -5
Post by Shannon on Dec 12, 2011 13:26:18 GMT -5
How about the rare QB with the whole skill set? Cam Newton already scares defenses. With a little more experience, he could be downright devastating.
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NFL
Dec 12, 2011 15:27:17 GMT -5
Post by theevan on Dec 12, 2011 15:27:17 GMT -5
How about the rare QB with the whole skill set? Cam Newton already scares defenses. With a little more experience, he could be downright devastating. With a bit more team around him as well...
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NFL
Dec 12, 2011 18:22:37 GMT -5
Post by Doug on Dec 12, 2011 18:22:37 GMT -5
There have been running QBs before. Broadway Joe, and look how his legs turned out. QBs are expensive to risk running injuries.
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NFL
Dec 12, 2011 18:24:14 GMT -5
Post by omaha on Dec 12, 2011 18:24:14 GMT -5
Fran Tarkenton used to be quite the nimble fellow.
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NFL
Dec 13, 2011 13:46:43 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2011 13:46:43 GMT -5
I kind of wonder why folks invest that much feeling as to whether a guy like Tebow will become a star or not. Fact is, he's off to a great start, and will probably continue to deliver until defenses start getting on to his style. Then, he may have to change his game somewhat. Some goys can do that, some can't.
There's no doubt he's a great athlete, and I happen to think that brings with it an ability to change as defenses adapt. A lot of sports commentators, no doubt, hope he eventually blows it. makes for a more interesting story when some Heisman winner, with all the collegiate success that implies, fizzles in the NFL. The greatest gift to those guys was Ryan Leaf. So, I hope he does well, because I love it when those guys are wrong.
But, let's be fair. His team seems to be developing a very impressive defense that seems to consistantly keep a slumberring offense in the game for three quarters. While everyone is enjoying arguing about Tebow's relative gifts, we kind of ignore the fact that Denver is within range when the offense finally wakes up in the fourth quarter.
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NFL
Dec 13, 2011 15:26:43 GMT -5
Post by t-bob on Dec 13, 2011 15:26:43 GMT -5
There have been and are so many quarterbacks who play OK thru 3 1/2 quarters, and then step it up 3 notches at the end of the game. Never really understood it. They need the pressure to perform?
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NFL
Dec 13, 2011 15:47:07 GMT -5
Post by dickt on Dec 13, 2011 15:47:07 GMT -5
There have been and are so many quarterbacks who play OK thru 3 1/2 quarters, and then step it up 3 notches at the end of the game. Never really understood it. They need the pressure to perform? Pressure, db's laying off of the receivers (pre-vent defense) and tired defensive linemen. I wonder how many sacks there are in the fourth quarter relative to other quarters? But actually there's factors that would increase the number of sacks--like one team being behind and passing twice as much in the late going.
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NFL
Dec 13, 2011 15:58:11 GMT -5
Post by dickt on Dec 13, 2011 15:58:11 GMT -5
I think there's another factor favoring the Peyton Mannings over the running qbs. Pro defensive linesmen are so tall now that it's almost impossible for a pocket passer under 6'3" to compete. And not too many 6'5" QBs are going to be nimble runners. But maybe things are changing. They start looking at these kids early in HS and if they grow tall enough they start getting identified as an NFL QB prospect. We had one kid at our HS who fit that mold even though the team never made any playoffs. UVa picked him up as a top prospect but a couple of alcohol busts and an admission of drug use got him dropped. He sat out a year and then washed out at Oregon State after getting busted for drunken boating.
I never saw much in him other than he was 6'4" and had a strong arm. But just his physical profile made him an NFL prospect from age 16 when other guys with much more athletic ability but were only 6' were overlooked.
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