Another music fund. question...

[Village Idiot]

This is Peyton again (lucky for you all! ;D) but I think this question will be a lot simpler to explain than the one last week...

Now we've moved onto minor scales. I understand that relative major/minor is strictly moving up or down 3 spots from the leading tone, and using the same key signature as the major/minor given. Right? And this can be double checked with the WHWWHWW pattern?

With parallel minor scales, though, I'm slightly more confused. How do I do it? ;D I know that it starts with the same note as the major scale, then I'm out...

Finally, with the harmonic minor, I start by finding the minor, right? I was told that I can find either the relative or parallel minor, but that doesn't make sense to me, because aren't they different? Then I add in the accidental of the tonic note from the major scale that was given to me? My prof. told me it is the 7th note, but the book says you look at the 7th note and raise it half a step...

Sorry to bug you all again, any help would be appreciated!

[paulschlimm]

I am not qualified to answer most of this question, on accounta' I've never heard of a parallel minor scale. (Peyton, I am also taking music theory, but I'm a lot older than you are. A lot.... ::sighs:

[Village Idiot]

Well I've figured out part of this on my own and now I understand the parallel minor. The thing that still has me confused, however, is the harmonic minor...

[paulschlimm]

I get lost after the relative minor, Peyton. That's the easy bit. I'm waiting for some of the musical jeanyises to weigh in!

[Dub]

Let's use the white keys of a piano. If you play an octave from C to the C above, you have a major diatonic scale usually just called a major scale. If the note C is number one (tonic), count up to the sixth white key. That will be an A. If you play all the white keys from A to the A above, you've played a natural minor scale. Yes, there is an A three notes down from C but A is called the sixth degree of the C major scale. Count up.

The harmonic minor scale is the same as the natural minor scale except the seventh degree (tone) of the harmonic minor scale is a half step higher than the seventh degree of the natural minor scale. So a harmonic minor scale in A starts on A and has all the same white keys except in stead of G, you play G#.

The rationale for this is that the major scale has only a half step between the seventh degree and the octave or eighth tone.

Capeesh?

[paulschlimm]

Yeah, and I get that the natural minor is same same as the relative minor, built off the sixth degree. What, however, is this dadblamed parallel minor stuff?

[j]

The parallel minor scale of any given major scale is the minor scale starting on the same root.

So C minor is the parallel minor of C major.

Relative major and minor scales, by contrast, don't share a root but share the same key signature.

Therefore A minor is the relative minor of C major.

[brucemacneill]

So, what's the key signature of the harmonic minor scale or do you just write in the appropriate augmented 7th? I maybe used to know this stuff but that was a half century ago and now it's easier to ask.

[j]

So, what's the key signature of the harmonic minor scale or do you just write in the appropriate augmented 7th?

generally speaking the key signature would stay the same as the natural minor and you just write in the appropriate accidental to raise (not augment) the seventh. Scanning for raised sevenths is the easiest way to ID a harmonic minor passage.

[Village Idiot]

Okay, so the harmonic minor scale is written as the RELATIVE minor scale and not the parallel? Why was I told that you could find either minor scale and then add in the accidental? I get that you go a half step above, and then would the key signature be what? For an Harmonic A Minor scale, it would be the key signature of A minor, but with G-sharp for the tonic note?

[paulschlimm]

Don't listen to J. He doesn't know anything about this stuff. ::whistles innocently::

[Village Idiot]

Ha I mean my professor told me I could do it either way...

[Tamarack]

Thanks Peyton and J -- I'm beginning to understand this stuff, even if Paul says different.

Is a note merely "raised" a half step in a scale and "augmented" if it's in a chord?

[j]

Okay, so the harmonic minor scale is written as the RELATIVE minor scale and not the parallel? Why was I told that you could find either minor scale and then add in the accidental?

some confusion here. Parallel and relative are terms that only refer to the relationship between a given major scale and its two minor siblings. The relative has a different tonic (3 steps lower), whereas the parallel has the same tonic as the major.

So C major has A minor as a relative minor and C minor as a parallel minor.

Minor scales in general can be in the natural or harmonic form. That has nothing to do with whether they are some other scale's relative or parallel minor. to make a natural minor scale into a harmonic minor one, you raise its seventh note (next to last). A raised 7th is also called a leading tone (NOT a tonic) because it "pulls" or leads towards the tonic (the first note of the scale, and the note that gives a scale its name.

So ABCDEFG is A natural minor; ABCDEFG# is A harmonic minor. The tonic of both scales is A; only the harmonic minor gas a leading tone--in this case G#.

Hope this helps!

[RickW]

Then there is the melodic minor scale, (laughs maniacally,) which has the six and seventh of the minor scale raised a half step when the melody is ascending, then played as a normal minor scale when descending. If you listen to Bach's Little Bouree in e minor, (or Jethro Tull's 'Bouree', a bit of ripoff, but if you're going to rip off someone, might as well be Bach,) you can hear it. It's very cool.

But I have never heard of the parallel minor. Damned if I know when you would refer to it that way, or why.

Truth to tell, for popular music, knowing the normal minor and major scales is sufficient, but it's fun to mess around.

And then, of course, there are modes.

Believe it or not, Peyton, it's all simple patterns. Of course, hearing it, knowing it, and being able to do something with it, are another thing entirely.

[Village Idiot]

Thanks everyone so much for all of the help!! Just to make sure I understand, is this right?:

D Major: D, E, F-sharp, G, A, B, C-sharp, D
D Natural Minor: B, C-sharp, D, E, F-sharp, G, A, B
D Relative Minor: B, C-sharp, D, E, F-sharp, G, A, B (same thing as natural minor)
D Parallel Minor: D, E, F, G, A, B-flat, C, D
D Harmonic Minor: D, E, F, G, A, B, C-sharp, D (And with this the key signature would be the same as the Natural Minor??)

[Village Idiot]

If my above is correct, then with the D harmonic minor, would the C technically be a C-double sharp?? Because it is being raised a half a step, but is already a sharp from the key signature used in the minor?

[aquaduct]

Feb 16, 2012 22:05:41 GMT -5 Village Idiot said:

Thanks everyone so much for all of the help!! Just to make sure I understand, is this right?:

D Major: D, E, F-sharp, G, A, B, C-sharp, D
D Natural Minor: B, C-sharp, D, E, F-sharp, G, A, B
D Relative Minor: B, C-sharp, D, E, F-sharp, G, A, B (same thing as natural minor)
D Parallel Minor: D, E, F, G, A, B-flat, C, D
D Harmonic Minor: D, E, F, G, A, B, C-sharp, D (And with this the key signature would be the same as the Natural Minor??)

Not quite.

B, C-sharp, D, E, F-sharp, G, A, B is the B natural minor, the same as D relative minor.

D natural minor is the same as the D parallel minor (same key signature as F major).

[Village Idiot]

Oh okay, so Natural Minor=Parallel Minor?

[Village Idiot]

D Major: D, E, F-sharp, G, A, B, C-sharp, D
D Natural Minor: D, E, F, G, A, B-flat, C, D
D Relative Minor: B, C-sharp, D, E, F-sharp, G, A, B
D Parallel Minor: D, E, F, G, A, B-flat, C, D
D Harmonic Minor: D, E, F, G, A, B, C-sharp, D with the key signature adding sharps onto the F and C? (or C double sharp?)