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Post by Lonnie on Nov 15, 2012 14:51:51 GMT -5
Last count I saw, individuals from 35 or more states had posted secession petitions (including Minnesota), most of those signed by fewer than a thousand. Anybody can post any petition they like (you have to be logged in, which requires telling the gov who you are). My guess is that a high percentage of all the secession petitions have been started by some bandwagon jumping person who thinks it's cute. Today's version of Warhol's 15 minutes of fame... "Hey Margot!! My petition's up there! Come look!!!"
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Post by millring on Nov 15, 2012 14:57:06 GMT -5
Calling a friend a racist isn't "harsh". |
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Post by Fingerplucked on Nov 15, 2012 15:02:17 GMT -5
Telling a friend to fuck off and go to hell is harsh.
Not that I'm holding that against anybody.
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Post by Doug on Nov 15, 2012 15:02:26 GMT -5
Last count I saw, individuals from 35 or more states had posted secession petitions (including Minnesota), most of those signed by fewer than a thousand. Anybody can post any petition they like (you have to be logged in, which requires telling the gov who you are). My guess is that a high percentage of all the secession petitions have been started by some bandwagon jumping person who thinks it's cute. Today's version of Warhol's 15 minutes of fame... "Hey Margot!! My petition's up there! Come look!!!" All 50 states had a secession petition with TX over 75,000 and total of almost 3/4 million counting all the secession petitions. |
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Post by Lonnie on Nov 15, 2012 15:05:24 GMT -5
Last count I saw, individuals from 35 or more states had posted secession petitions (including Minnesota), most of those signed by fewer than a thousand. Anybody can post any petition they like (you have to be logged in, which requires telling the gov who you are). My guess is that a high percentage of all the secession petitions have been started by some bandwagon jumping person who thinks it's cute. Today's version of Warhol's 15 minutes of fame... "Hey Margot!! My petition's up there! Come look!!!" All 50 states had a secession petition with TX over 75,000 and total of almost 3/4 million counting all the secession petitions. Heh... Does Washington, DC have one yet? |
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Post by aquaduct on Nov 15, 2012 15:05:27 GMT -5
Last count I saw, individuals from 35 or more states had posted secession petitions (including Minnesota), most of those signed by fewer than a thousand. Anybody can post any petition they like (you have to be logged in, which requires telling the gov who you are). My guess is that a high percentage of all the secession petitions have been started by some bandwagon jumping person who thinks it's cute. Today's version of Warhol's 15 minutes of fame... "Hey Margot!! My petition's up there! Come look!!!" Probably. And there certainly aren't any of them coming close to having any practical legitimacy. But they do raise issues. Maybe we've out-grown Lincoln. Maybe central governance is becoming unsustainable. It's certainly something rational people can discuss and have disagreements over. But to jump to charges of racism for asking the question is idiotic and counter-productive. And yes, offensive with a capital O. In an additional irony, it reinforces the cartoonish view of liberals as people that simply respond to every argument with charges of racism. Nobody's suggested rounding anyone up and throwing them out of the country against thier will or imposing any type of ethnic cleansing. These folks are voluntarily signing petitions through a legitimately democratic process of making thier views known and putting them on public display for whatever purposes that serves. They're not hiding in basements planning lynchings. Bravo President. Now if you can convince your followers to act like adults. |
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Post by millring on Nov 15, 2012 15:07:59 GMT -5
Telling a friend to fuck off and go to hell is harsh. Not that I'm holding that against anybody. Yeah, Jeff should have just sucked it up and accepted being called a racist like a gentleman. |
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Post by Fingerplucked on Nov 15, 2012 15:11:15 GMT -5
John, going in circles with you is more fun than going in circles with most people.
So again, you're saying I called Jeff a racist?
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Post by millring on Nov 15, 2012 15:19:00 GMT -5
John, going in circles with you is more fun than going in circles with most people. So again, you're saying I called Jeff a racist? "And that's why I said nobody was calling him a racist. I certainly wasn't. I didn't think Tramp was either." I was responding to your assertion that "I don't think Tramp was either". |
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Post by Supertramp78 on Nov 15, 2012 15:30:38 GMT -5
John, I've met you and I'll assume for discussions sake that you are white. You certainly look white. You are also, I believe, protestant. That puts you four square in what is considered the 'mainstream' as far as the American 'culture' goes. So you are looking at the world through the eyes of the traditional majority.
I'm not white. I never have been. My dad is. So I guess I'm 50% white and 25% Latino and 25% Japanese. I'm not technically Protestant although I was certainly raised as one. So 'culture' wise, I'm not mainstream and never have been. I've been called 'chink', "jap", 'spic', 'wetback', and recently here 'fool', 'moron', 'socialist', 'communist', and 'idiot'. Whatever. it comes with my territory. Welcome to the last 52 years of my life.
Now we get to yet another in a long line of post election woe is me posts about how terrible the world is gonna be now that "X" and not "Y" was elected President. There is talk of secession. Blame gets tossed around. What is so wrong with this country that all these horrible things could have happened?
Well for one thing we have too damn meny cultures here. We are too culturally diverse. Cultural diversity is a bad thing. Really? Seriously? Again?
Jeff needs to look back at some history before he tosses that old nugget out. If that attitude had been around when the colonies had been formed, he wouldn't have been alowed in. For example, the second Massachusetts charter of October 7, 1691 decreed "that forever hereafter there shall be liberty of conscience allowed in the worship of God to all Christians, except Papists, inhabiting, or which shall inhabit or be resident within, such Province or Territory."
They must have thought that was one culture they could do without. That's the problem when you start to think that one culture is superior to another. Some days you are on one side of the good line and other days you might find yourself on the other side wondering how you got there.
Well I'm pretty firmly on the other side of whatever line Jeff sees as 'good' since I'm not much like him in any way and we all know he thinks he is good. Everyone thinks they are good.
But when people start to talk about the dangers or drawbacks of different cultures, they are saying I'm bad. My culture is bad. My culture should either go away or be abandonded for the good of the country. I don't take that kindly and never have. It scares me. Why? Because of Executive Order 9066. That was the law that put the Japanese (and their culture) in the concentration camps during WWII.
Funny thing about that order. It stipulated how many generations down you could go and still get rounded up and put in a camp. They could take Issei (people born in Japan and moved here), Nisei (the American born children of Issei who were themselves American citizens by birth despite the fact that their parents were prohibited from being citizens until 1955), and finally Sansei (children of Nisei, also American citizens).
I'm Sansei. Me. If that law was been passed today, I would be in a camp. So yeah, when well meaning folks talk about how much better the country would be without so many 'different' cultures, it scares the shit out of me.
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Post by brucemacneill on Nov 15, 2012 15:40:45 GMT -5
Well just remember it was a Democrat who signed that order.
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Post by Fingerplucked on Nov 15, 2012 15:42:10 GMT -5
John, going in circles with you is more fun than going in circles with most people. So again, you're saying I called Jeff a racist? "And that's why I said nobody was calling him a racist. I certainly wasn't. I didn't think Tramp was either." I was responding to your assertion that "I don't think Tramp was either". Oh. Well, I didn't. Now I'm not so sure. Jeff sure thought I was calling him a racist, though. He made sure to get me in there. And then you seemed willing enough to paint anyone within striking range with false racial charges. And then there's Peter ranting something or other about racism and Obama followers which I'd understand better if I thought his posts were worth reading. I couldn't disagree with Jeff more about his reasons for supporting secession. When I said "crybabies" I meant it. And I meant it when I said "too much diversity" is really about a lack of tolerance for others. But I don't think Jeff is a racist, nor have I ever thought that. I hope Jeff comes back. As much as I disagree with him on some things, he could almost always be counted on for intellignent, if sometimes heated discussions. I can't say the same for all the guys on your team, especially since the election. EDIT: I was getting ready to post and I see that Tramp posted after yours. Reading through it, I don't think I'd feel any differently than he does. |
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Post by majorminor on Nov 15, 2012 15:42:18 GMT -5
Well let's just cut to the chase. Cheney is Jeff racist in your opinion? I took your response to be a four square accusation of such. So is it yes but with a reason then? Or is it no and this was a regretful misunderstanding of some type?
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Nov 15, 2012 15:53:23 GMT -5
Sure am glad the election is over and we got all that negativity out of our collective system.
Mike
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Post by Supertramp78 on Nov 15, 2012 16:02:56 GMT -5
I have no idea if Jeff is racist. I know his opinions are scary and have led to all sorts of justifications for racist actions in the past. he may be completely unaware of that. he may just think that a country with lots of different people is hard to manage. I don't think so. We have managed to do it for as long as we have been here. But we aren't the same country we were 60 years ago and that scares and bothers some folks. They start talking about the good old days and that scares me since the good old days kind of sucked for people like me.
That was why I said what I did. When you start talking about 'culture' being one or two too many, the implications are dangerous. Very dangerous.
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Post by millring on Nov 15, 2012 16:04:40 GMT -5
Ok, this is a watershed moment, but I'm with Jeff. Cultural is cultural. He said nothing about race, didn't imply it and has said nothing here in the time I've been around to indicate he has the attitude to have meant it. Tim |
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Post by millring on Nov 15, 2012 16:11:33 GMT -5
I can't say the same for all the guys on your team I don't have a team. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2012 16:12:31 GMT -5
I prefer this version  That is splendid! |
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Post by Supertramp78 on Nov 15, 2012 16:13:03 GMT -5
I thought you were a basketball fan. Isn't everyone in your state a basketball fan? I mean your state seems to dominate the world in that sport (why is that by the way)?
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Post by Supertramp78 on Nov 15, 2012 16:15:12 GMT -5
Listen, I blew up and responded very poorly. Just a very touchy subject in my life and family. Sorry, Jeff. For the record, no, I don't think Jeff is racist. I do think he is wrong to thing we are too culturally diverse. I like being diverse in that way. If he comes back I'll tell him that to his face. or avatar... or cigar or whatever it is we have here.
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