value, worth and trade offs

[mnhermit]

What is indoor plumbing worth? Having heat that actually warms you? A kitchen you can call your own. What do you trade for them?

Money is a given, but what else? Do you give up smoking indoors? Do you re-train your dogs?

I'm trying to decide the value (to me) of having a 'real' home, as opposed to camping out in the folks back yard. A rental has come up near by, I'm tempted by the creature comforts, but the cost is steep (for me) and some of the codicils, not unreasonable, will require some change of habits, and I don't know if the advantages are worth the effort.

So what's indoor plumbing worth?

[Deleted]

Build a outhouse, use it for a month, then you tell me. ;D

[Supertramp78]

My grandparents had an outhouse. Then they built a house and really liked it. then they tore down that house and built a new one and while they were building it they moved back into that really OLD house with the outhouse behind it. One night grandpa had to get up in the middle of the night and go to the bathroom. There was a storm raging outside. High winds. He bundled up and trucked outside and waled down the path to the outhouse and when he got to the end of the path he almost fell into a hole in the grond. That is when he discovered that the storm had blown the outhouse about 50 feet back into the ditch. Right about then was when he probably really appreciated indoor plumbing.

[mnhermit]

Thanks

[aquaduct]

We discovered the hard way that the value of owning a home is really a chimera. It really only exists if you can somehow manage to sell for more than you've put into it.

So we will rent for probably the rest of our lives. Pay for use. And change your lifestyle and location at will without having to worry about unloading real estate. If you end up looking for work and can consider relocating and you don't have a house, that can be real attractive to recruiters.

We're renting now in my son's school district with a lease until he graduates in June. Then we're probably going to find a nice apartment downtown above some shops. Got a call today from someone who's got some really nice places down there with an elevator and 12-foot cielings from the 1700's and just might have one openning up soon. If so we'll rent it and have 2 places until spring.

I can't see ever going back to owning my own place.

But then, the places we rent will always have indoor plumbing.

[ducktrapper]

Outhouse? What century is this? There may be advantages to renting and surely there is satisfaction to owning one's own home but I'd have thought that the advantages of indoor plumbing were beyond debate.

[xyrn]

If you're going to buy, these days are good ones to be a buyer.

On the other hand, you can easily feel "stuck" with a house, even if it's a nice one. Renting gives you the open of pulling up your stakes with 30-60 days notice and getting out no strings attached.

We bought our house in 2002 (I think) partly due to everyone saying that a house is the best investment you'll ever make and partly due to the illusion that it'd keep increasing in price ~10% per year, obviously that didn't happen.

Now, we've outgrown the 3br 1bathroom no basement townhouse and that's one reason we're hesitant about having a second child (where would we put it?) but if we tried to sell it to move it quickly we'd lose a several tens of thousands of dollars. In retrospect, I wish we would've just decided to rent a condo for as many years since we never gained any equity (and wouldn't have gained any by renting either) and now have the added burden of immobility (we'd like to either move closer to the Cities or leave the state altogether.

Home ownership has many downsides, and limited advantages, currently.
FWIW, -K

[Russell Letson]

Value and (money) price are not necessarily the same thing, though they can often be put on the same scale. Not unlike cost and price--not all costs are toted up in dollars or are even countable. Peter's way of measuring the value of home ownership would seem to be not just a matter of money but of the degree of freedom it offers--which degree is partly a matter of the money cost of ownership.

[dradtke]

I read an article that mentioned Minnesota farmers, before plumbing, keeping the toilet seat in the kitchen, tucked between the wall and the wood stove. Then when they went to the outhouse they would carry a nice toasty warm seat with them.

I mentioned that to my mother-in-law, who grew up with an outhouse in Illinois, and she slapped her forehead. "Why didn't we think of that?"

[xyrn]

Nov 29, 2012 13:56:42 GMT -5 Russell Letson said:

Value and (money) price are not necessarily the same thing, though they can often be put on the same scale. Not unlike cost and price--not all costs are toted up in dollars or are even countable. Peter's way of measuring the value of home ownership would seem to be not just a matter of money but of the degree of freedom it offers--which degree is partly a matter of the money cost of ownership.

This is exactly true. Economists talk of "opportunity costs", a fancy way of saying 'the things you give up or cannot have because of the things you do have'. For different people, the opportunity costs are different and/or have varying significance.

In my situation, our perceived major opportunity cost of owning a home is the fact that we cannot easily or cheaply relocate at a near-moment's notice. Commuting, I spend basically a car payment per month in gas, not to mention the actual car payment I pay in order to have a reliable car that can handle those miles, additionally there is the time I spend in the car, the wear on the car, and the risk I incur by commuting in traffic (especially during the winter).
If we weren't tied down to our home we could easily live closer to my work (my wife works on a computer from home so that doesn't require a specific address) and save on some of those things I listed.

On the other hand, if we lived closer to my work that'd mean we'd be further from both sets of parents that currently are a few minutes away, and with a toddler, it is nice to have the grandparents so close that both see him at least once a week.

There are trade-offs everywhere; only the OP can determine which apply and to what significance.

[Fingerplucked]

Nov 29, 2012 13:16:39 GMT -5 mnhermit said:

What is indoor plumbing worth? Having heat that actually warms you? A kitchen you can call your own. What do you trade for them?

Money is a given, but what else? Do you give up smoking indoors? Do you re-train your dogs?

I'm trying to decide the value (to me) of having a 'real' home, as opposed to camping out in the folks back yard. A rental has come up near by, I'm tempted by the creature comforts, but the cost is steep (for me) and some of the codicils, not unreasonable, will require some change of habits, and I don't know if the advantages are worth the effort.

So what's indoor plumbing worth?

Don't do it. You're already camping in the backyard. Moving indoors will just make you weak. And as an indoor dweller, you'll no longer have any use for your beard. And then the plumbing will break. You'll have to call a plumber because you don't know about anything that's not in a tent. The plumber will be expensive because he lives indoors too. And after you're done paying the plumber, you won't have any money left over for the big screen TV that you don't really want but will feel you have to buy since you're living indoors.

Don't do it.

[Village Idiot]

Dennis, providing you have access to a well, you certainly have the skills to quit camping and make a very nice place out there with a wood-burning stove that would keep you and your dogs very happy and snug. I can't see plumbing being an issue. Re-learn your baking skills using a dutch oven, etc.

The only problem that I'd see is what has happened to friends of mine who lived in a teepee (very snug at 30 below) and another couple who lived in a cabin they built on their own land with no water or electricity: Neither met county standards, the county wasn't notified about the structure, all that stuff. Both of their issues with the county centered around plumbing, especially lack of a septic system.

[Cosmic Wonder]

Home ownership positives depend on where you live, and when you bought. Housing prices are starting to rise again in Portland. We bought our house 20 yrs ago, paid 140 for it. Today it is worth at least 350. We bought our beach cabin for 100, I think I could get 225 for it today. All things being equal, it's about location and timing.

Mike

[Deleted]

A hole in the ground with no water in it, and with nobody shooting at you, is a start. Everything past that is upscale....

[Deleted]

There is a lot of truth to what you say, Paul. What we really "need" is so much less than what we've become accustomed to.

[mnhermit]

Nov 30, 2012 7:27:45 GMT -5 @pauls said:

A hole in the ground with no water in it, and with nobody shooting at you, is a start. Everything past that is upscale....

I'm lucky that there are not too many shooters on the island, but finding a hole with no water at the bottom only works July-September

I expect I'll rent the cabin, it's the 'adult' thing to do. (by adult I mean more expensive, less fun - and responsible) I'll be able to have my guitars closer to hand, actually get them out once in a while and play them, that sorta stuff.

[ducktrapper]

Nov 30, 2012 8:35:48 GMT -5 kbcolorado said:

There is a lot of truth to what you say, Paul. What we really "need" is so much less than what we've become accustomed to.

The trouble being that someone else is always so willing to deteremine what you really need.