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Post by godotwaits on Dec 14, 2012 13:00:43 GMT -5
This one just up river from me. Newtown, Ct. Sandy Hook Elementary School. NPR just said 27 people killed including 18 children. Now I warn that these numbers are unconfirmed. Press conference shortly.
My god I pray these numbers are wrong.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 14, 2012 13:04:00 GMT -5
Maybe if the teachers (or the kids) were able to conceal and carry, this wouldn't happen. Always very sad.
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Post by billhammond on Dec 14, 2012 13:06:20 GMT -5
Dear Lord. Oh, man, I am tearing up here.
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Post by sekhmet on Dec 14, 2012 13:09:36 GMT -5
It is almost unimaginable. The shooter is apparently the father of a student at the school. One entire class is unaccounted for. Dozens dead including the principal and the school psychologist. Madness is rampant in our society.
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Post by godotwaits on Dec 14, 2012 13:15:59 GMT -5
One gunman is dead. It is rumored that there is a 2nd at large. Press conference delayed. Town in turmoil. Ambulances cued up to local fire department. Parents swarming.
The body count is per an AP press release. No other confirmation.
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Post by Village Idiot on Dec 14, 2012 13:36:02 GMT -5
My oh my. How horribly tragic. I don't know what to say.
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Post by Ann T on Dec 14, 2012 13:54:32 GMT -5
I've been following this with a heavy heart. What kind of depravity lead to this?
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Post by Ann T on Dec 14, 2012 13:56:00 GMT -5
It is almost unimaginable. The shooter is apparently the father of a student at the school. One entire class is unaccounted for. Dozens dead including the principal and the school psychologist. Madness is rampant in our society. You have gotten more info than is being released on CNN.com. They are being very circumspect about identifying anyone's role. Madness is rampant. Hate is rampant.
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Post by godotwaits on Dec 14, 2012 14:01:13 GMT -5
The numbers keep persisting. But Unconfirmed. Pending notifications. And unfortunately, most of the witnesses were the children themselves.
Gov Malloy is on the scene with the parents.
Local NPR has switched to full coverage.
The numbers persist: 27 killed including 18 children.
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Post by billhammond on Dec 14, 2012 14:11:01 GMT -5
USA TODAY:
NEWTOWN, Conn. -- A lone gunman killed 26 people at an elementary school here, including 18 children, in a terrifying early Friday morning shooting spree.
The Associated Press and local media reported the shooter, an unidentified 20-year-old adult male with ties to the school, was also dead inside Sandy Hook Elementary School. A second person was in custody and undergoing questioning. Two handguns were recovered at the scene. Mayor Mark Boughton said several victims had been taken to local hospitals.
Groups of students — some crying, some holding hands — were escorted from the school by teachers. Some witnesses reported of up to 100 shots. There were unconfirmed reports that the assailant, dressed in military style assault gear, shot most of the victims in a kindergarten classroom.
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Post by theevan on Dec 14, 2012 14:20:21 GMT -5
What in the hell???
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Post by Marshall on Dec 14, 2012 14:20:53 GMT -5
It is almost unimaginable. The shooter is apparently the father of a student at the school. One entire class is unaccounted for. Dozens dead including the principal and the school psychologist. Madness is rampant in our society. You have gotten more info than is being released on CNN.com. They are being very circumspect about identifying anyone's role. Madness is rampant. Hate is rampant. I have to believe that it's something about our modern instant-information world that makes this thing more likely. The sensationalism of it has to stick in the mind of mentally sick people. Plus violence is such a big part of our entertainment; even the games our children play. It just has to plant the seed in the disturbed mind that acting out like this is the right way to get the attention/revenge/whatever they desire. I got no answers. I'm just sick about it.
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Post by Supertramp78 on Dec 14, 2012 14:27:44 GMT -5
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Post by Ann T on Dec 14, 2012 14:31:03 GMT -5
I do believe that violence in entertainment is a big part of it. Instead of something being abhorrent or taboo, it is modeled in full color, full sound effects, full gore, and full horror-glory--over and over and over.
To see how quickly things lose shock value, take note of how many current prime time network TV comedies regularly reference sex organs by anatomic names, over and over, in their jokes. Note how CSI and Law and Order describe (and show) graphic horrible crimes, with grisly bloody bodies and terrified victims in the act of being violated, as entertainment. Most stable people shudder; less stable people might get ideas. Everyone is desensitized; the unthinkable is not only thinkable, it is visualizable, audible, and shown as a how-to in detail. Is this helpful to society as a whole? I'm guilty of watching these shows, too, but my mother was probably one of the most restrictive censors of our TV viewing (especially any violence) of anyone I knew, short of getting rid of the TV altogether. I think that was a good thing, for multiple reasons.
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Post by kenlarsson on Dec 14, 2012 14:39:54 GMT -5
Apparently his name is Ryan Lanza, 24. His mother was a teacher at the school and she was one of the people killed. It looks like he specifically targeted her classroom and them moved on from there.
I'm sick at heart hearing of this.
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Post by Chesapeake on Dec 14, 2012 14:55:48 GMT -5
As I go about my everyday life surrounded for the most part by nice people performing acts of courtesy and kindness, I can't accept that either madness or hatred is "rampant" in our culture.
That said, how much more convincing do we need that something needs to be done about the problem of unstable people with access to guns? One answer, unfortunately in my opinion, is going to have to be to legislate more and more for the worst possible case. That means more regulation of firearms and more intrusive security at public places, including schools, shopping malls and theaters. We also need to restore spending for mental-health programs, including psychiatric hospitals and wards, to pre-Reagan era levels, adjusted for inflation. The mental-health situation in this country is, tragically, a bad joke: Ask just about anyone who has had the misfortune of being caught up in it.
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Post by Shannon on Dec 14, 2012 15:01:32 GMT -5
Just yesterday we had a long training session at our clinic about how to respond in the event that a shooter came into the clinic. Auburn University is trying to get this training to every student, staff member, faculty member, and department. How tragic that they feel it is necessary, but it obviously is so. I will now go home and teach my children, and pray for today's victims.
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Post by Supertramp78 on Dec 14, 2012 15:04:33 GMT -5
I suspect that talking heads will instantly say that it is too soon to talk about limiting guns while having no problem suggesting now might be the time to talk about expanding carry laws.
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Post by billhammond on Dec 14, 2012 15:16:33 GMT -5
The person being questioned as a possible second shooter is Lanza's younger brother. BOTH mentally ill?
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Post by Ann T on Dec 14, 2012 15:31:18 GMT -5
As I go about my everyday life surrounded for the most part by nice people performing acts of courtesy and kindness, I can't accept that either madness or hatred is "rampant" in our culture. That said, how much more convincing do we need that something needs to be done about the problem of unstable people with access to guns? One answer, unfortunately in my opinion, is going to have to be to legislate more and more for the worst possible case. That means more regulation of firearms and more intrusive security at public places, including schools, shopping malls and theaters. We also need to restore spending for mental-health programs, including psychiatric hospitals and wards, to pre-Reagan era levels, adjusted for inflation. The mental-health situation in this country is, tragically, a bad joke: Ask just about anyone who has had the misfortune of being caught up in it. The current laws governing confining mentally ill people are so restrictive that most of the times the families or others who know about the problem are powerless to do anything. Unless a homicidal or suicidal threat is voiced and imminent, and you can get the cops to come do something, you can't just haul the person into the ER and say they are mentally ill and you are concerned they might do something. Even then, there is a 72 hour limit on confinement. (An example of what happened in one of these situations: Back in 1960, my dad had an engineer in his department who had a psychotic break during the workday and was running around in the middle of a major highway shouting that he could fly and was in danger of being hit by traffic. The coworkers caught him and took him to the local hospital where he was admitted and treated. He responded by suing every one of them--including my dad--for $1,000,000 for "kidnapping". The case dragged on for 5 years, and was finally heard by a judge who decided in favor of the coworkers and wrote a decision commending the compassion of the coworkers, in effect disabling an appeal by the plaintiff. Nonetheless, this was a stressor over our family for 5 years, and also affected my dad's career plans by tying him to the company in order to retain the legal protection and payment of legal bills. He turned down a faculty position offer at Stanford because of it. All because they were good Samaritans...) Everyone likes to blame Reagan, but the dismantling of the mental health hospital/asylum system was driven by psychiatrists and activists who wanted to restore rights to the patients and have them treated as outpatients instead of inpatients. This happened when antipsychotic drugs such as Thorazine came on the scene. The vision was to have people living free out in the community with their diseases controlled by clinic visits. The trouble is, a lot of mentally ill people do not have insight into their disease, or do not tolerate the side effects of medication, and therefore do not comply with the regimen. There are already tons of laws restricting mentally ill people from having firearms, including the Federal Firearms Act of 1968. HIPAA restricts medical information from being released or shared, so it's hard to get this information. This was a problem with the Virginia Tech shooter's situation. At our hospital, all psych records are considered especially sensitive information and are sequestered into a special area away from the regular medical record, with limited access to get at them. A nationwide instant verification system authorized to get this information might be a step in the right direction.
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