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Post by brucemacneill on Dec 14, 2012 15:34:42 GMT -5
Unbelievably sad. I don't have words to describe the feelings.
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Post by Supertramp78 on Dec 14, 2012 15:43:50 GMT -5
Unbelievably sad. I don't have words to describe the feelings. +1
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Tamarack
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Ancient Citizen
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Post by Tamarack on Dec 14, 2012 15:44:19 GMT -5
Tearful and sickened. I can't fathom the depravity/insanity of the shooter and can't fathom the grief of the parents.
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Post by Chesapeake on Dec 14, 2012 15:45:03 GMT -5
Ann - I recall, because I lived through it in D.C., when the Reagan administration practically depopulated the mental hospitals during the 1980s as a matter of budget cutting. A lot of them wound up on the streets of DC as homeless people with the added disadvantage of their mental condition. That situation continues today. I believe the matter of privacy of medical records is a separate issue - though I tend to agree that the reforms went overboard to the extent that not even members of a patient's own family may be privvy to what is going on with their loved one in resident care.
In any case, I didn't mean to suggest that we need more laws to keep guns out of their hands - I agree there are plenty of those already on the books. But I do think a more robust mental-health system in this country would get help to people who need it, possibly averting tragedies like this as well as countless more personal tragedies that never make headlines.
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Post by Ann T on Dec 14, 2012 15:50:02 GMT -5
Ann - I recall, because I lived through it in D.C., when the Reagan administration practically depopulated the mental hospitals during the 1980s as a matter of budget cutting. A lot of them wound up on the streets of DC as homeless people with the added disadvantage of their mental condition. That situation continues today. I believe the matter of privacy of medical records is a separate issue - though I tend to agree that the reforms went overboard to the extent that not even members of a patient's own family may be privvy to what is going on with their loved one in resident care. In any case, I didn't mean to suggest that we need more laws to keep guns out of their hands - I agree there are plenty of those already on the books. But I do think a more robust mental-health system in this country would get help to people who need it, possibly averting tragedies like this as well as countless more personal tragedies that never make headlines. Well, I gave you the version that was taught to us by the Psych department faculty in med school. I agree, our mental health system is inadequate, and it has been so for years. I believe this is one of the most glaring and pressing social problems in our country. The need cuts across all social, racial, and economic groups, and affects not only the patients themselves, but the entire families of the mentally ill, the general community in which they live (=everywhere), and regrettably their victims. The more you get to know people, you know that nearly every family has someone in it with mental health problems. It has been estimated that the stress on families is worse than having a family member with cancer. Unlike cancer, these problems go on for entire lifetimes. Unfortunately, we would rather be distracted by Honey Boo Boo, Snookie, and Twinkies than think about it.
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Post by Supertramp78 on Dec 14, 2012 15:57:55 GMT -5
There was a line in one of the stories I read that hit me hard.
One of the kids said that the police came to their room and had them all line up and get ready to walk out of the room and down the hall and out of the building. They were told to hold onto the person in front of them and then they were told to close their eyes....
I can't even imagine what it was they were trying to keep those kids from seeing. I hope they kept their eyes closed.
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Post by Supertramp78 on Dec 14, 2012 15:59:47 GMT -5
Ann, I hear you. Thanks for your comments. Lots of insight and wisdom there.
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Dec 14, 2012 16:34:08 GMT -5
Ann - I recall, because I lived through it in D.C., when the Reagan administration practically depopulated the mental hospitals during the 1980s as a matter of budget cutting. A lot of them wound up on the streets of DC as homeless people with the added disadvantage of their mental condition. That situation continues today. I believe the matter of privacy of medical records is a separate issue - though I tend to agree that the reforms went overboard to the extent that not even members of a patient's own family may be privvy to what is going on with their loved one in resident care. In any case, I didn't mean to suggest that we need more laws to keep guns out of their hands - I agree there are plenty of those already on the books. But I do think a more robust mental-health system in this country would get help to people who need it, possibly averting tragedies like this as well as countless more personal tragedies that never make headlines. Here in Indiana, Democratic governor Evan Bayh closed the major mental health facilities after some embarrassing incidents of staff abuse of patients. I always thought he took the easy expedient route. It was easier to close the places and turn out the patients than it was to solve the problems within them by providing adequate staffing and funding. Later, Mitch Daniels closed a remaining facility in the southern part of the state.
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Post by xyrn on Dec 14, 2012 17:18:44 GMT -5
Just woke up from my day-sleep and read the news... Awful. Disgusting. Sickening. No adequate words to describe this. The debate will rage on soon enough, today lets just hang our heads and hold each other close. If your kids are young, give 'em an extra hug. If they're out of the nest, give 'em a call. Gonna be an awfully grim holiday for many many families this year.
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Post by Hobson on Dec 14, 2012 17:23:53 GMT -5
It wasn't Reagan in the 80s. In 1974 - 75 I worked at a community mental health center. The process of getting people out of residential mental health facilities was already in full swing and that's why a bunch of us (through VISTA) got hired as mental health assistants. Yeah, people were no longer in institutions. But they were heavily medicated and many were in all-day programs 5 days a week. They also needed assistance with the most basic things, like scheduling and keeping a dentist's appointment. Some were clearly hallucinating and a few scared me. None of them drove and part of my job was to take them to the mental health center and medical appointments and even help them to open bank accounts.
Why the big push to get them back into the community? Maybe it was budget cuts, but the thinking in the industry was that they really didn't need to be in institutions and they would be better off outside them. They were actually getting a lot of support and most still weren't really functioning.
I'm sure that it's even harder now to place somebody in a residential mental health facility.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 17:41:55 GMT -5
Tearful and sickened. I can't fathom the depravity/insanity of the shooter and can't fathom the grief of the parents. this
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Post by sekhmet on Dec 14, 2012 19:27:33 GMT -5
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Post by xyrn on Dec 14, 2012 20:03:27 GMT -5
No disrespect intended Sekhmet, but could we please hold off on Canadian opinions about US law until the bodies are cold?
Today we grieve.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 20:43:17 GMT -5
F U C K
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Post by sekhmet on Dec 14, 2012 21:53:28 GMT -5
I think the byline of this cartoon is distinctly american, at least washington was in the us when I last looked.
If you meant that, as a Canadian I am not entitled to speak my mind on this forum, I seriously object. I have been here 12 years and it's been a long frosty Friday since someone offered a similar opinion. I think you'll find that everyone here recognizes that the forum is not American only and people here respect me enough to consider my opinions as legitimate as their own, on any subject.
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Post by sekhmet on Dec 14, 2012 21:54:31 GMT -5
In fact, xyrn, I find I am quite outraged that you would attempt to silence me on any subject, ever.!!!!!
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Post by sekhmet on Dec 14, 2012 22:12:36 GMT -5
that being said, I am also saddened by this disgusting tragedy. Obama was right, and it is time to reconsider many things. Hopefully, this horrible incident will cause people to think about how necessary it is to have a population armed to the teeth. Ann's comments are right on.
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Post by Village Idiot on Dec 14, 2012 22:27:42 GMT -5
I do believe that violence in entertainment is a big part of it. Instead of something being abhorrent or taboo, it is modeled in full color, full sound effects, full gore, and full horror-glory--over and over and over. To see how quickly things lose shock value, take note of how many current prime time network TV comedies regularly reference sex organs by anatomic names, over and over, in their jokes. Note how CSI and Law and Order describe (and show) graphic horrible crimes, with grisly bloody bodies and terrified victims in the act of being violated, as entertainment. Most stable people shudder; less stable people might get ideas. Everyone is desensitized; the unthinkable is not only thinkable, it is visualizable, audible, and shown as a how-to in detail. Is this helpful to society as a whole? That is a really good thought, Ann. I hope you don't mind me bolding part of your comment.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 23:21:59 GMT -5
Turn off your tv. Better yet, give it away or throw it away. I have been without one for five years. I cut the cable off nine years go.
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Post by godotwaits on Dec 15, 2012 1:03:13 GMT -5
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