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Post by Marshall on Aug 29, 2014 10:37:50 GMT -5
Crimean and part of Ukraine have been part of Russia since 1783. Only in 1996 did they get separated.
We have our military out there meddling in the affairs of all sorts of local conflicts around the world; many thousands of miles from our own borders.
Sure, we have justifications for all of this. But it's going to be hard to stop that train.
Yeah, Putin is crazy. But I doubt he's a threat to anywhere beyond his back door step.
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Post by Chesapeake on Aug 29, 2014 11:03:03 GMT -5
I was going to go get quotes from Washington's Farewell Address so I read it *. He takes thousands of words to say don't have treatys they just get you involved in someone else's war. That's most of the second half of the address. Which isn't an address it's a letter. Because George Washington said something in the 18th century doesn't automatically make it true today. Kind of like we don't need to not eat shellfish because the Bible said we shouldn't. Americans have been making alliances ever since the days of the Mayflower, when William Bradford, Miles Standish and company hooked up with the Indians just down the road for mutual defense. In Washington's day America was isolated by geography - an ocean - and could afford to ignore the rest of the world. Today, the rest of world is just down the road. Just like Bradford, we have to make alliances to survive.
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Post by epaul on Aug 29, 2014 11:25:26 GMT -5
Who is crazy?
Putin is spending his country's resources on maintaining and improving a needed southern seaport and stabilizing Russia's southern border. Putin's moves are rationally designed to protect and improve Russia's economy and security.
Our leaders have been fruitlessly expending America's resources 7,000+ miles away in Iraq and Afghanistan... and Libya, Syria, Sudan, Somalia, Israel, Egypt, Yemeen, and on and on and on. Meanwhile, how are things going on our southern border?
Considering what we have gotten for what we have spent in these last ten-twenty years, Putin is looking pretty good. I'm ready to trade..., but Russia would never go for it.
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Post by Doug on Aug 29, 2014 12:00:50 GMT -5
I was going to go get quotes from Washington's Farewell Address so I read it *. He takes thousands of words to say don't have treatys they just get you involved in someone else's war. That's most of the second half of the address. Which isn't an address it's a letter. Because George Washington said something in the 18th century doesn't automatically make it true today. Kind of like we don't need to not eat shellfish because the Bible said we shouldn't. Americans have been making alliances ever since the days of the Mayflower, when William Bradford, Miles Standish and company hooked up with the Indians just down the road for mutual defense. In Washington's day America was isolated by geography - an ocean - and could afford to ignore the rest of the world. Today, the rest of world is just down the road. Just like Bradford, we have to make alliances to survive. So if Russia invades a NATO county that we go to war with Russia, nukes and all. Or do we just dilly dally and murder a bunch of US troops in an illegal war for political gain. Making treatys unless you are in a declared war is stupid and that's why all of these boys were murdered by the government for political gain.
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Post by Chesapeake on Aug 29, 2014 12:12:30 GMT -5
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Post by Doug on Aug 29, 2014 12:15:44 GMT -5
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 29, 2014 12:23:42 GMT -5
I will given Obama credit. He has, whether through an actual plan or just sheer incompetence, pursued the isolationist foreign policy that his base was clamoring for when he was elected.
And now that there's no policeman in the world to keep the bad guys under control they are ascendant. And nasty.
It will be interesting to see how long we can stay isolationist as the world continues to discover that there's real serious evil out there that can't be tamed with a rousing round of Kumbayah and hand holding.
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Aug 29, 2014 20:48:41 GMT -5
I will given Obama credit. He has, whether through an actual plan or just sheer incompetence, pursued the isolationist foreign policy that his base was clamoring for when he was elected. And now that there's no policeman in the world to keep the bad guys under control they are ascendant. And nasty. It will be interesting to see how long we can stay isolationist as the world continues to discover that there's real serious evil out there that can't be tamed with a rousing round of Kumbayah and hand holding. Which is why we need to get our nine-year-olds Uzi-trained as quickly as possible.
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Post by Doug on Aug 29, 2014 20:52:08 GMT -5
I will given Obama credit. He has, whether through an actual plan or just sheer incompetence, pursued the isolationist foreign policy that his base was clamoring for when he was elected. And now that there's no policeman in the world to keep the bad guys under control they are ascendant. And nasty. It will be interesting to see how long we can stay isolationist as the world continues to discover that there's real serious evil out there that can't be tamed with a rousing round of Kumbayah and hand holding. Which is why we need to get our nine-year-olds Uzi-trained as quickly as possible. That's what our potential enemies are doing. Except they seem to prefer bombs on children.
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Post by jdd2 on Aug 30, 2014 2:34:08 GMT -5
(I'm with epaul on this.)
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