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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 20:26:05 GMT -5
I am stupid sometimes and I have some very good, less than intellectually brilliant friends. Anyone who is the victim of a conman has to contend not only with their financial loss but their own, after the fact, realisation of their stupidity. It really is harsh to criticise a crime victim's intellectual shortcomings or uninformedness in the wake of crimes committed against them. The spotlight of opprobrium always belongs directly on the criminal.
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Post by Supertramp78 on Sept 2, 2014 20:37:51 GMT -5
Don, I'm not suggesting they are responsible or that they deserve it. I'm saying that they are all something we aren't. They are attractive famous women. As such they have to be aware that they are a constant target of photographers and the like. Most of these people have photographers following them 24/7. While in public they have no expectation of privacy. If you walk out into your backyard naked (and yes I am sorry for putting that image into the mind of us all) nobody will know (thank God). Nobody is standing outside waiting in case you do such a scary thing. But if Kate Upton has a nipple slip in public and exposes the last few square inches of her body that the world hasn't seen yet, it will be on TMZ within 15 minutes.
So they should know that the career they have chosen has created a market for any nude or semi-nude photos of them. Do they have a right to privacy in their homes? Sure. But if you create something worth thousands of dollars to the right people, you should be intelligent enough to figure out how to keep it secure. Putting those photos on a cell phone or a cloud server these days is really stupid. Failing to come up with a password that couldn't be guessed (that's how the photos were stolen) is also stupid.
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Post by theevan on Sept 2, 2014 20:44:02 GMT -5
Tramp, +1.
Nobody is absolving or even diminishing the criminality. While I share their indignation (if the two ladies were indignant at all) I wonder why they didn't lock up their stuff, instead of leaving it out in the carport, where the guys who have been casing the carport for months can waltz in and walk off with it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 21:00:13 GMT -5
Not everyone knows what vulnerabilities they have. It may be that they are overly trusting and insufficiently suspicious of the nefarious intent of parts of the world around them. They may be "dumb". I have read that these women were stupid a lot more times than is nice in internet discussions. Those women have to their detriment been less than super-aware and hyper-cautious. They don't need to read how dumb they are. They might prefer more sympathy for being targetted by a bastard.
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Post by Cornflake on Sept 2, 2014 21:01:17 GMT -5
Cheney, Evan, I respect you both very much. But we're just at odds on this one.
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Post by Cornflake on Sept 2, 2014 21:03:56 GMT -5
I think I'll just relax and let James argue my side of this.
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Post by Cornflake on Sept 2, 2014 21:16:00 GMT -5
But not quite yet... Reminds me of when I disconnected myself as a moderator. Gabriel Giffords has just been shot. I was in some pain. I posted something about it and Jeff Miller responded that the shooting was deplorable BUT people were angry about the Affordable Care Act, and with good reason. I objected, he told me to go fuck myself and I no longer felt like being moderate. The "but" suggests an equivalence between the things on one side and the things on the other. Here, there isn't any. The but belongs on page 42 of the thread at best.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2014 21:34:54 GMT -5
Funny! I only got chided by Jeff for not being "collegial" enough with Fatstrat (I later told Fatstrat to fuck off). He seems to have reserved his "go fuck yourself" moments, like Ducktrapper to me, for PMs.
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Post by Supertramp78 on Sept 2, 2014 22:27:38 GMT -5
You know when you get Don so mad he equates you to Jeff.. wow, you really have become something you don't want to be.
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Post by Cornflake on Sept 2, 2014 22:33:11 GMT -5
Believe me, Cheney, you and Miller have nothing in common. And I'm not mad.
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Post by millring on Sept 3, 2014 5:53:36 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 11:15:05 GMT -5
So, I guess my real thoughts here aren't so much "hey, idiot, why the nude pictures?", but more like, "hey, it could have been any of us." Sure, maybe YOU or I don't have naked pictures stored on Apple's Cloud, or some other cloud-thing, but you have SOMETHING there. Even if you don't actively store things to a "cloud", you have banking info somewhere, a credit card stored on a favorite website, maybe. Maybe an app on your phone where you store passwords, bank info, etc..? Yes? We all have something to lose in this cyber-crime world. In this instance, a couple of Hollywood types had pictures stolen and made public. Sure, pictures I would never have of myself, but I do have pictures out there somewhere (Facebook, Instagram, anyone?)
So, while it may be really easy (ok, really, really easy) to poke fun at these women, it doesn't make you or I any less of a potential victim for the same thing.
I hate crooks.
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Post by Marshall on Sept 3, 2014 11:40:07 GMT -5
I will defer to Flake's analysis of the true concern we all should have for privacy; whether we be famous or not.
. . . . , BUT, I have to say that we are bombarded every day with little stories, true or not, about celebs that have the direct purpose of piquing our interest in their theatrical shenanigans. And, for the most part, they profit quite handsomely for that public attention. I'm sure that the ladies in question will be in more demand because of it.
And as a bombarded and jaded citizenry, it's quite natural to find humor and enjoyment in the minor troubles (real or not) of the famous. It's part of how we cope with being the regular joes that we are. Yes, if I were a prosecuting attorney or judge, I would look at this in a more serious light. But I'm not. And I'm happy to leave that correct moral judgement to those good people in proper authority.
But for me, a smirky giggle, and a "they got what they deserved" is just what the doctor ordered. Now back to the mundane concerns of my personal life drama.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 12:33:12 GMT -5
How people choose to abuse and humiliate celebrity women online is a more disseminated version of the attacks on non-celebrity women. Tolerating and giggling at this and by extension the thousands of peeping Toms masturbating over images of these women, who did not consent, who are mothers, sisters and daughters same as we all have is not a particularly lovely aspect of society. It sends out a sad message to all women about how important their right to not be harrassed and criminally exploited for their personal and private sexual behaviour is.
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Post by coachdoc on Sept 3, 2014 14:50:07 GMT -5
C'mon guys. Let's skip the ethical, moral and legal chatter and cut to the chase. Kate has some amazing hooters.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 15:19:16 GMT -5
C'mon guys. Let's skip the ethical, moral and legal chatter and cut to the chase. Kate has some amazing hooters. That may well be the case. Long may she enjoy having them. The legal chatter just took an interesting twist though, given that a great many people it seems have been cheerfully possessing and ogling at illegal underage porn on their computers.
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Post by Supertramp78 on Sept 3, 2014 15:51:12 GMT -5
The guy who hacked Scarlett Johansson's email account in order to grab photos of her was convicted of "accessing protected computers without authorization, damaging protected computers without authorization, wiretapping, and aggravated identity theft". While not all of those crimes are applicable when you access someone's cloud server, most of them are and the penalties are stiff. That guy got ten years in prison. That's ten years per offense. If the people who did this hack also grabbed the photos of the gymnast who was underage (or any servers who had them or anyone who downloaded them) are all looking at child porn violations on top of that. Now the FBI is looking into it and they have really good resources for tracking this stuff down. The internet routers log activity so it won't be impossible to figure out when the ip address was that pulled the photos down.
Not to say there aren't ways around this. There are lots of companies out there that sell VPN access. Essentially you log into one of their servers (could be anywhere in the world) and your internet is encrypted and sent to that server and then routed out from that server. So if you are logged into a server in Germany and you go to a IP tracker to find out where you are, it says you are in Germany. If the VPN company fails to keep logs of incoming connections (and most don't) then there is no easy way to figure out where the guy really is other than he really isn't in Germany.
I actually thought about doing this once when I was in India. Mark Knopfler was on tour and they were selling soundboard recordings of the shows but because of legal reasons those recordings were only available in Europe and Asia, not the US. I was sitting in New Delhi and wanted a few of the concerts but my mind was telling me that I couldn't get them. I thought about the assorted web based VBN solutions to create a European IP address to get around the US sanction until I remembered I was in INDIA ALREADY! I just logged onto the site and bought the shows. Duh.
By the way, a lot of people in places like China and Russia use these VPNs to get around the state restrictions on internet access.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 19:51:00 GMT -5
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