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Post by brucemacneill on Mar 28, 2015 5:56:07 GMT -5
Guitar-wise, long skinny finger genes couldn't hurt although Segovia didn't have them.
It occurred to me this morning that that great-uncle banjo player of mine had a son who was the music director at a high-school. He played horns though. I still think there's a gene in there somewhere.
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Post by coachdoc on Mar 28, 2015 7:06:55 GMT -5
I have but one thing to add. Mookie Betts.
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Tamarack
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Ancient Citizen
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Post by Tamarack on Mar 28, 2015 7:47:33 GMT -5
Long skinny finger genes haven't helped me much.
The music gene has been slippery in my family. My uncle was musical, his brother, my father, couldn't carry a tune in a bucket (his fraternity banned him from singing) . My sister's piano playing, brother's singing in choirs, and my stumblings with guitar were motivated by love and not by talent. Then the next generation popped up with nephews who are multi-instrumentalists and singers.
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Post by drlj on Mar 28, 2015 8:03:30 GMT -5
I was the only person in my family to play anything or have any real interest in music. Most of my siblings did not see any value in it and thought the money I spent on recordings and instruments was wasted. One brother and one sister had a bit of interest in what I played and they enjoyed hearing me play. The others, including my parents, did not have much interest at all. I have a nephew who plays guitar a little but it is way down on his list of important things. His kids seem to be interested in music, though. There are a lot of KY Mattinglys who play and some are well known in the country and bluegrass fields but, if they are related, it is a distant relationship. I have never met any of them but I have been asked about a couple of them by musician friends a time or two. I think the music bug just bites some people at random sometimes.
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Mar 28, 2015 9:23:29 GMT -5
I think there is something to the genetics thing. My parents and my grandparents could not play guitar. Neither can I.
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Dub
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I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
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Post by Dub on Mar 28, 2015 14:42:05 GMT -5
…I think the music bug just bites some people at random sometimes. I think that's the answer right there. Music is built-in as far as humans are concerned. Scientists are telling us that music likely preceded speech in human development. It's in all our genes. We may take it up because of some serendipitous combination of environment and imagination but any of us can do it at some acceptable level. Of course some will do it better than others but that seems to be true of any human endeavor. It has way more to do with focus and effort than any unusual genetic programming.
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Mar 28, 2015 15:12:23 GMT -5
…I think the music bug just bites some people at random sometimes. It has way more to do with focus and effort than any unusual genetic programming. I was afraid of that. It is not my ancestors' fault that I cannot play. It is mine.
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Post by RickW on Mar 28, 2015 15:31:53 GMT -5
As I have been wandering through the recording and composition journey, a couple of interesting thoughts have come to mind. As we all know, it is entirely possible to make a piece of music, through various forms of software, without actually playing an instrument. This brings up some interesting points, and questions.
It is possible that someone who has never developed the physical skill can write amazing music. Being freed of the need to play a piece, and simply writing down what sounds good, and letting the machine play it, is very doable.
It is also very stimulating - you are not stuck in the rut of your own habits. It's a whole lot of fun.
But how much of "musicality", comes from the use of the hands to make music? How much influence is there on how the music you create will sound?
Do we, as musicians, given any credence to music that was written and "performed" in this way? If it's a sequencer pushing out the notes, after I have programmed the sequencer to play the notes I wanted, is it it still valid?
And, while there is no question that there is skill in singing, it's not the same as playing an instrument. It's a natural thing where the physical act is not learned, it's practiced and honed. We all know how to make noise come out of our mouths, and mostly musical noise, without years of practice. This makes singing very analgous to using software to write a tune.
I have come to the conclusion that if I lost the ability to play guitar, I would continue to make music in some form or other. There is no reason not to. Which makes me feel more like a musician, less solely a guitar player. And I think that's good, too.
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Post by Doug on Mar 28, 2015 15:33:11 GMT -5
We all know that like any talent it's a mixture of nature and nurture. I mean my father couldn't tell you which was a lower voice: Tennessee Ernie or Dolly. No amount of nurture could have fixed that.
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Post by Russell Letson on Mar 28, 2015 16:01:03 GMT -5
my father couldn't tell you which was a lower voice: Tennessee Ernie or Dolly. No amount of nurture could have fixed that. He might have been distracted. That's the "nature" part, I suspect. (Neil Patrick Harris might also have been distracted, but in the other direction. On the third hand, he can sing pretty well already.)
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Post by Russell Letson on Mar 28, 2015 16:03:43 GMT -5
And, while there is no question that there is skill in singing, it's not the same as playing an instrument. It's a natural thing where the physical act is not learned, it's practiced and honed. We all know how to make noise come out of our mouths, and mostly musical noise, without years of practice. This makes singing very analgous to using software to write a tune. Ever take voice lessons? Ever spend time with unpracticed singers?
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Post by brucemacneill on Mar 28, 2015 16:17:35 GMT -5
I'm picturing Zogg's grandfather walking around whistling the Andy Griffith Theme, pre language, and everyone bopping along with him.
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Post by RickW on Mar 28, 2015 16:54:59 GMT -5
And, while there is no question that there is skill in singing, it's not the same as playing an instrument. It's a natural thing where the physical act is not learned, it's practiced and honed. We all know how to make noise come out of our mouths, and mostly musical noise, without years of practice. This makes singing very analgous to using software to write a tune. Ever take voice lessons? Ever spend time with unpracticed singers? Yes and yes. But I don't ever remember not being able to sing, in some way or form. I most certainly remember not being able to play guitar. And I would say that if you have musical ability, the internal kind, it's not that hard with a few lessons to learn to sing well.
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Post by millring on Mar 28, 2015 17:06:18 GMT -5
Ever take voice lessons? Ever spend time with unpracticed singers? Yes and yes. But I don't ever remember not being able to sing, in some way or form. I most certainly remember not being able to play guitar. And I would say that if you have musical ability, the internal kind, it's not that hard with a few lessons to learn to sing well. Interesting observation. You're right, of course. Most people I know could sing. Even on pitch. They just started doing it and their ears told them where to go. And I think vocal training might be able to improve something that is already there, but I doubt it's effectiveness in creating something out of something that's not there. Take vibrato, for instance. If a singer already is capable of this affectation, a teacher can help the singer learn to control it within the confines of that singer's anatomical capabilities. But if a singer cannot affect it, it cannot be taught. Vocal lessons for vibrato consist of this: TEACHER: Make your voice sound like this <sings with vibrato> STUDENT: Sings with vibrato. TEACHER: Okay, now when your voice does that, do this and it will sound better. Or, alternately: TEACHER: Make your voice sound like this <sings with vibrato> STUDENT: Sings but cannot make vibrato happen. TEACHER: Hmm. Okay. Well, have you thought about trumpet lessons?
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Post by epaul on Mar 28, 2015 19:20:07 GMT -5
There is a reason the "nature vs. nurture" debate goes on and on and on ... and on. It is because both arguments can present a compelling case with lots and lots of good support. And the reason they can do this is because both have a solid stake to their slice of the pie. It isn't nature vs. nurture, it is nature and nurture.
Every Tandberg I know of sings and whistles. Every Crocker I know of (my wife's family) sings and whistles. (Charlene's two brothers had leads in musicals at Bloomington Kennedy (Tevye and King Arthur) and at their respective colleges. And I have played the Cowardly Lion four times now in venues spanning all across a thin slice of northern Minnesota and North Dakota.
The Tandberg/Crocker union has crossed their respective musical genes and produced two kids, both of whom were raised, nurtured, in a very music-filled environment (starting pre-natal, because we were very serious about the entire business) (I even chowed down on extra broccoli just to make sure my sperm was properly nutriated and frisky.) Both kids got those tiny violins and some Suzuki lessons, both got nice beginner horns and good quality professional horns prior to ninth grade. Both got private voice lessons and were enrolled in every summer in a theater program. And they got guitars, little ones and regular ones.
And both kids have grown to love music and to love playing music. And both play piano and guitar (and some harmonica). And both can whistle.
That's the nurture part, and it worked as advertised.
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Post by epaul on Mar 28, 2015 19:48:25 GMT -5
But, there is a genetic component.
Anna can sing and is in her college choir, but, her voice is kind of thin and no solos get tossed her way. She is good, not great nor will her singing ever be great. But, she can do a Joni Mitchel song and sound pretty close, and she can sing in choirs where ever she may go. Her voice is sweet, interesting, (especially with guitar), and that's plenty good enough.
Gus, on the other hand, is great. As a boy tenor, he ruled in various choirs and kid shows. And when puberty struck, he turned into a deep rich, vibrant Robert Goulet of a baritone who can range from a show time bass to second tenor. Not to brag, but he has been receiving lots of attention and offers from various universities (ok, so music departments really need students, still, they are after him). And, as a junior, (this year), he was named Principle Trumpet for the North Dakota All State Orchestra, a title that is awarded to the top high school trumpet player in the state. He had a 12 measure solo at All State this year, a rare honor in orchestra for a trumpet player. (after the All State performance, a fellow representing the United States Army Field Band visited with Gus and talked with him about life as an Army band guy during college (ROTC deal) or after college (audition opportunities).
If Gus makes All State Band and Chorus again next year, he will be the first kid from Grand Forks to have ever made both groups all four years of high school.
That's enough bragging (for now). But, the point is, nurture is nurture and nature is nature. (and aptitude, determination, and hard work is aptitude, determination, and hard work). There is a lot more to it than just having superior tools to work with, but, if all else is in place, you can't beat being born with voice that can rattle windows and make cranky cats purr.
(and as it is with voice, so is it with trumpet. Anna can blow and blow and blow, and sound good. But, but from the first time Gus blew a toot, it was clear he had a richer sound than Anna, it was just there from the beginning, he never did have a "sour" period on the horn. It was good and full from the git go.)
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Post by coachdoc on Mar 29, 2015 9:44:49 GMT -5
I'm from a family with 7 kids. 3 boys, 3 girls, then an after thought 4th boy. (That's 7 for those who can't add.) All 4 boys play acoustic guitar and have performed successfully in public. One sister was the go to heart throb singer in HS musicals. The other 2 eschewed music, but are excellent painters. Some nature there, I guess, but mostly constant playing of John Hurt, Doc Watson and opera on the family's turntable.
P.S. My mother took my brothers and I to see variously Doc Watson, MJH, Kweskin and Dave Van Ronk, until the second time she took us DVR was drunk, loud and exquisitely profane. She decided then that 11-15 y.o. boys were being over exposed. But she bought the record with DVR's over the top rendition of Silver Dagger.
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Post by Lonnie on Mar 29, 2015 13:44:00 GMT -5
My maternal grandmother played piano and organ, church stuff right out of the book. When senility began to make its presence known, she could still play a few things from memory. My dad owned a cornet, he would get it out and play it every Christmas, until my sister and I decided that enough was enough. He kept it in a case under his bed, so around Thanksgiving one year we snuck into his room and purloined the mouthpiece, putting it back the following January. It only took two years for the point to sink in. I've known and worked with several musical families, most notably the Petersons, Minnesota's First Family of Music. There's got to be some nature as well as lots of nurture in that family, they're all monstrously good.
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Post by Greg B on Mar 30, 2015 10:23:46 GMT -5
Nature or nurture? Who knows. Maybe it's genetic or maybe it's just the fact that I was exposed to music all my life. Starting with my grand father on my mother's side: He ran his own jazz band. The Johnny Whited orchestra. That's my grandpa John on piano, his son, my uncle, Bill on saxophone, and another son, John Jr., on drums. My grandmother sang. I've always loved this photo of the two of them from the 1940's. My grandfather's brother Arnold was also a musician. I remember being 9 years old and driving to their house in Ohio for the first time. As we drove up I thought "Somebody's playing the radio really loudly." Nope, it was great uncle Arn on piano and his two sons playing drums and bass. They had a jazz trio with all their gear in a spare bedroom. The third uncle is also a drummer who has played for Johnny Mathis and, if I remember correctly, Ray Charles. But he's been going through some serious alcohol problems and has pretty much destroyed his own career. Uncle John, who was the drummer in the first photo, was the drummer in the Disneyland band for 16 years. My mom was my first piano teacher. She still plays for fun but hasn't taught in decades. One of my 2 brothers plays guitar and use to really be into his rock band when we were in high school. Somewhere I have a photo of him in his rock star clothes posing with his Les Paul. His son Chris plays in a metal band called Hollowshell. So basically, I've been exposed to live music for much of my life. Perhaps more importantly, I was exposed to the idea that music is something that people do rather than just hearing it on the radio. That may have been the most important lesson which pushed me into playing music.
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Post by Chesapeake on Mar 30, 2015 10:49:29 GMT -5
Music runs in my mother's side of the family but not my father's. I'm guessing its impossible to say whether it's genetic, or just determined by what people are exposed to early in life.
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