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Post by millring on Jul 30, 2015 20:29:23 GMT -5
Why would someone shoot a giraffe? It probably had a sore throat. Euthanasia.
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Post by drlj on Jul 30, 2015 20:31:08 GMT -5
Well, at least it was for a good reason.
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Post by Lonnie on Jul 30, 2015 20:39:00 GMT -5
I was going to say something funny, but that photo just sickens me. And to jump to meaningless and misleading, deflecting comparisons, it sickens me the same way the religious right cries out that "all life is sacred" until it comes to sending young people to war. What the hell, they're gonna die someday anyway.
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Post by RickW on Jul 30, 2015 21:01:55 GMT -5
The other side of this, is that Zimbabwe is a very poor country. And we can should and wring our hands all we want, but when someone in a poor country can make 50k US by simply influencing a lion to step over a boundary, it's not going to stop. I'm not defending the shooter or trophy hunting. The only way you're going to stop it is to make it easy to deport someone to those countries to face their justice and jails, and I'd say the likelihood that the US will do that is just about 0.
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Post by TKennedy on Jul 30, 2015 21:04:10 GMT -5
We did a gig at this boutique pheasant hunting club a while back. Nice lodge, guest bedrooms, dining room, bar, etc. Wealthy guys who have paid thousands to have their dogs professionally trained hang out there. They actually breed the pheasants in captivity and on the day of the hunt plant them around the acreage. Before planting them they spin them around by their legs to disorient them so they are easier to shoot.
I hunted pheasants growing up in western NE and found the whole thing pretty bizzare.
I had a patient from Morris MN that trained labs for guys that hang out at clubs like this one. He had wealthy clients from all over the USA. Many corporate CEO types.
It is a big old goofy world.
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Post by Marshall on Jul 30, 2015 21:29:05 GMT -5
Is she stuffed, too? Why would someone shoot a giraffe? Internet is full of them
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Post by Village Idiot on Jul 30, 2015 21:37:04 GMT -5
We did a gig at this boutique pheasant hunting club a while back. Nice lodge, guest bedrooms, dining room, bar, etc. Wealthy guys who have paid thousands to have their dogs professionally trained hang out there. They actually breed the pheasants in captivity and on the day of the hunt plant them around the acreage. Before planting them they spin them around by their legs to disorient them so they are easier to shoot. I hunted pheasants growing up in western NE and found the whole thing pretty bizzare. I had a patient from Morris MN that trained labs for guys that hang out at clubs like this one. He had wealthy clients from all over the USA. Many corporate CEO types. It is a big old goofy world. They have those kinds of hunting places in Iowa, where people not from Iowa stay in nice lodges and "hunt" pheasants released moments before. In some, the "hunters" have a choice. Blinders or no? The blinders are on the pheasants.
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Post by Village Idiot on Jul 30, 2015 21:43:13 GMT -5
A giraffe is a very curious animal.
I used to go with my Dad when he went hunting in Africa. Not for lions, but for food. At the time you did not want to eat hamburger (if that's what it was) that had been sitting on a grocery store counter all day, unrefrigerated, so what my Dad hunted we ate. I remember with a wildebeest you had to leave 250 pounds behind for the hyenas, jackals, vultures, etc, so you really weren't hauling out all that much. Anyway, giraffes were very curious creatures. It wasn't uncommon to turn around and see one following you, just kind of wondering what was going on, looking quite innocent, big eyes and big lashes. I always thought that was the coolest thing. But I can't imagine shooting one. And I can tell you, from being there as a kid, that shooting one would be like shooting a penned up cow. Entirely too easy.
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Post by james on Jul 30, 2015 21:51:59 GMT -5
I loved watching the giraffes. They move so gracefully and as if in slow motion. Mesmerizing.
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Post by Doug on Jul 30, 2015 22:51:09 GMT -5
Here we go. I've been waiting till I had a computer not a tablet to jump in. I've been a hunter from the time I was 8 till my health made it impractical. I'm basically a meat hunter (I like game meat and I mostly* eat what I shoot). That doesn't mean that I would turn down a trophy if one came my way. (If I'm elk hunting and have a cow tag[shoot either sex] and I see a big old 6x6 bull and a young cow side by side I'm gonna shoot the bull even though the cow would be better eating) I can only think of one time that I would call trophy hunting, drew a goat tag (didn't get one) but climbing around up there where goats live is one of the physically most tough hunt I ever did and if I had got a goat it would have been a trophy. Most of the real trophy hunters I have known are challenging themselves against the best. You don't get to be a 6x6 bull elk by being dumb. *mostly - I have also shot varmints and pest from rats up to coyote. BTW I personally think if you are going to hunt a African lion for a trophy you would hunt it in the tall grass stalking. I would think that would be a trophy not shooting it over bait. But it seems he did jump through the hoops, paying the fee, hiring a government licensed guide etc. The land owner and the guide are guilty as hell. The demist is guilty of being a rich American and a poor sportsman.
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Post by jdd2 on Jul 30, 2015 22:57:21 GMT -5
If you can't walk a cornfield in November and hit a pheasant that pops up, you shouldn't be hunting pheasants.
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Post by RickW on Jul 31, 2015 1:08:30 GMT -5
If you can't walk a cornfield in November and hit a pheasant that pops up, you shouldn't be hunting pheasants. I think the kind "hunting" being talked about stretches the meaning of the word.
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Post by millring on Jul 31, 2015 4:35:31 GMT -5
Dude hunting.
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Post by patrick on Jul 31, 2015 8:31:44 GMT -5
If we pay Catholic hospitals, or other faith-based businesses to provide medical services, are we giving them more time to proselytize, in violation of the First Amendment? They do that? You mean because they acknowledge their Catholic founding, that's the same thing as "proselytizing"? You mean it's one of their principle functions (as abortion is for PP)? I'm not seeing it. PP's principle function is delivering health services to the poor (which used to be one for the Catholic Church also). Abortion isn't their "principle" function. Catholic hospitals don't just "acknowledge" their Catholic funding. I spent 5 days in Holy Cross hospital recently. At 9 every day everyone would stop whatever they were doing and pray, led by a priest over the intercom system. There were crucifixes in every room. How can that happen without using money from Medicare and Medicaid payments for salaries, etc. for those people. Furthermore, they absolutley will NOT perform abortions, rape victims are refused emergency contraception. I'm not confident they would honor a final directive. Other than that, it's a good hospital. But clearly imposing Catholic doctrine on people using Federal money.
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Post by millring on Jul 31, 2015 8:37:29 GMT -5
Abortion isn't their "principle" function. Nonsense. Of course it is.
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Post by patrick on Jul 31, 2015 8:57:25 GMT -5
Abortion isn't their "principle" function. Nonsense. Of course it is. The great majority of people who go there for basic health care, including men, who don't get abortions would disagree with you.
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Post by epaul on Jul 31, 2015 10:58:49 GMT -5
I don't hunt. Too lazy and don't feel like shooting anything (most days). But, concerning game farms and pheasants:
To begin with, if it wasn't for hunters and hunting, there wouldn't be pheasants in Iowa, or South Dakota, or Minnesota, or anywhere else in this country (other than in a few exotic bird collections). Pheasants were brought over here from China by hunters for hunting (pheasants aren't alone in this regard). Unlike many imported game animals, the pheasant is only marginally adapted to this country and it's population has been managed and supplemented with fresh releases since year one (on the American Pheasant Calendar).
Game farms run the gamut from target galleries for the indolent to regular hunting that is like any other game bird hunting; regular hunting with the exception being that if it wasn't for the income the land owner derived from his game farm, the game farm birds that are being hunted wouldn't be there, wouldn't be anywhere, would have never existed as the game farm manager would not have purchased chicks from a game bird hatchery and released them on his managed game farm. Hatched under heat lamps, turned loose in the spring to be shot in fall; it's a short life, but a merry one.
Hunters that go to game farms to hunt are not by definition slackers, bums, and phony baloney lazy ass hunters. Increasingly, access to hunting land is restricted or unavailable. If you don't know a farmer with a cornfield and some CRP, or know someone who knows someone, you might very easily find yourself out of luck if trying to find a place to hunt. This isn't the good old days and access to private land isn't that easy to come by for folks that don't have connections. And that is why there are game farms. And that is why there are birds on game farms; birds that would not be there if there wasn't a hunt; birds that would have never uttered that first happy chirp in the spring sunshine if they hadn't been purchased to be shot in the fall. (and there is always the hope of escape; jumping the fence and crossing the black path of death that has the four-wheeled metal monsters and finding love and freedom in a wild GMO cornfield)
(I would think that the anti-hunting save the animals folks would be promoting game farms. Game farms can keep hunters from tramping about the natural countryside and shooting up wild critters that were born free out in natural nature. Game farms can keep the hunters confined to the game farm instead of wandering about shooting up the countryside (and plugging the occasional stop sign, horse, and school bus).
While hunters and bambi freaks might seem to be unlikely allies, they are, knowingly or not, allies. Both have a powerful interest in preserving the wild; preserving habitat. And in this world, the wild needs all the interest it can garner for without interest much of it will be lost. I have no doubt that Ducks Unlimited has purchased more wild land to keep wild than Greenpeace, Earth First, and Peta rolled into one and multiplied by five. Hunters drive the budget for preserving wildlife habitat in every state government across this fair land. And when Cabelas and Bass Pro Shop speak, legislators listen. (even GM has noticed a nice spike in new Tahoe and Suburban sales prior to each fall hunting season (nice rig, Bob, you must be doing pretty well. Not bad, Al, not bad.).
Preservation of habitat is the single most important factor in the preservation of wild life. Habitat is not only number 1, it is also numbers 2, 3, 4, 5, ans 6 on the what matters for wild animals scale. And when the bill is presented for the preservation of habitat, hunters have had, to date, the fattest wallets.
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Post by Chesapeake on Jul 31, 2015 11:13:12 GMT -5
COPY EDITOR!
U.S. officials can’t find Cecil the lion’s killer as Zimbabwe calls for his extradition
By Elahe Izadi and Darryl Fears July 31 at 11:46 AM
Zimbabwean authorities confirmed July 31 that they want to extradite the American dentist who killed Cecil the lion. A U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service official said the State Department is looking into the matter. (AP)
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service wants to talk to Walter Palmer. But it can't find him.
Investigators for the service have knocked on the front door of Palmer's house, stopped by his dental office, called his telephone numbers and filled his inbox with e-mails. Palmer, a hunting enthusiast who illegally killed a rare African lion in Zimbabwe early this month, couldn't be lured out of hiding.
“I’m sure he knows” the government is looking for him, Ed Grace, chief of law enforcement for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, told The Washington Post on Thursday. “We’ve made repeated attempts to try and get in contact with him.”
If and when he's found, Palmer could face an expedition request from officials in Zimbabwe, who have signaled a request to pursue one.
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Post by billhammond on Jul 31, 2015 11:18:32 GMT -5
Expedite that extradition so they can indict him over his expedition. (Wonder if he booked via Expedia?)
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Post by epaul on Jul 31, 2015 11:45:40 GMT -5
COPY EDITOR! U.S. officials can’t find Cecil the lion’s killer as Zimbabwe calls for his extraditionBy Elahe Izadi and Darryl Fears July 31 at 11:46 AM Zimbabwean authorities confirmed July 31 that they want to extradite the American dentist who killed Cecil the lion. A U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service official said the State Department is looking into the matter. (AP) The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service wants to talk to Walter Palmer. But it can't find him. Investigators for the service have knocked on the front door of Palmer's house, stopped by his dental office, called his telephone numbers and filled his inbox with e-mails. Palmer, a hunting enthusiast who illegally killed a rare African lion in Zimbabwe early this month, couldn't be lured out of hiding. “I’m sure he knows” the government is looking for him, Ed Grace, chief of law enforcement for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, told The Washington Post on Thursday. “We’ve made repeated attempts to try and get in contact with him.” If and when he's found, Palmer could face an expedition request from officials in Zimbabwe, who have signaled a request to pursue one. Palmer may be laying low, but that reckless article makes it sound like he is on the lam (can't be lured out of hiding? Cute, but slimy. If and when he is found? National Enquirer sleaze.) You don't have to answer the phone just because someone from Fish and Wildlife calls. If they have a legal reason to require you to speak with them, there is a legal process they can go through. (and one agent shooting off his mouth to a reporter is not part of the legal process). If there isn't a legal reason to respond, you can tell any caller to go to hell. You don't need to open your door or answer your phone. Due process applies even to dentists, even if biased and reckless reporting suggests it doesn't and that he is hiding out from the law (for as of yet, no law has been invoked).
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