|
Post by Doug on Jan 10, 2016 16:22:36 GMT -5
…Let's go with the often purported "43x as likely" myth bandied about but they anti-Constitutionalists. Im thinking these people may just be anti-violentdeathists. If that was true we wouldn't be in the ME.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 16:25:11 GMT -5
I seem to remember a couple of news worthy incidents in the last few months where cars were specifically used to aim at and attempt to injure people. In Las Vegas and in Oklahoma, I believe. Someone must have forgot to tell the drivers what cars were for.
|
|
|
Post by Fingerplucked on Jan 10, 2016 16:35:01 GMT -5
I seem to remember a couple of news worthy incidents in the last few months where cars were specifically used to aim at and attempt to injure people. In Las Vegas and in Oklahoma, I believe. Someone must have forgot to tell the drivers what cars were for. I only heard about one of them. It was a woman, I think with her baby in the backseat, who intentionally veered onto a sidewalk and hit 30+ people. Which is why I’ve been calling for a ban on high capacity magazine* assault vehicles. * Her trunk was loaded with 16 issues of Cosmopolitan, 28 issues of Self, 3 pizza stained copies of Rachel Ray’s magazine, and one unread copy of Reader’s Digest.
|
|
|
Post by jdd2 on Jan 10, 2016 16:37:21 GMT -5
As in some cars, if only they could put alcohol locks on guns.
|
|
|
Post by xyrn on Jan 10, 2016 17:43:19 GMT -5
You've almost got right what I said. No. That’s not “almost” right. It’s a direct quote. It’s exactly what you said. So is this: I decided to honor your wishes, ignore the insults, and to let the matter drop. You can do the same. All you have to do is to shut your mouth. I'm still not interested in trying to change your mind, but I WILL respond when I'm incorrectly referenced. Yes, I said what you quoted me saying about the 2nd Amendment, but as far as the stuff about what you claim is bullshit, the "guns don't kills people, people kill people" that IS something I believe but your post stated that I do not use those points. Further, I'm an NRA member and I'm much more informed about their platform than you are, and when you mischaracterize their platform you mischaracterize me as well. They have maintained that the 2nd Amendment is about defense against human predators AND tyranny and that it is not about hunting and target shooting. This debate is circular and tiring - but I'm not going to stay silent if you or others use that as an opportunity to make incorrect statements about what I said or what my kind of people stand for. And, when did I insult you?
|
|
|
Post by Fingerplucked on Jan 10, 2016 19:47:15 GMT -5
Xyrn, I don’t see any point in continuing the discussion with you. Continue on your own if you like. If you manage to come up with something interesting I may change my mind.
|
|
|
Post by xyrn on Jan 10, 2016 21:26:06 GMT -5
Xyrn, I don’t see any point in continuing the discussion with you. Continue on your own if you like. If you manage to come up with something interesting I may change my mind. Fine. I thought we were being adults. Points, counterpoints, etc. Then you accuse me of insulting you and I ask you to specify when, and now you take your ball and go home, whatever. Listen, Jim, I'm really not trying to be a dick or goad you into a reply, I'm just frustrated that your side thinks my side are all lunatics on the brink of becoming horrible criminals. I'm a fairly decent person, I work hard at my job, I love my family, and I love America, I just can't stand the leadership, either side of the aisle, they're out of touch and effing things up for everyone with more regulations on top of more regulations. I've been on the internet a loooong time and have learned by now that heated debate rarely goes as well as if people were face to face (but knowing that doesn't mean I take my own dang advice to stay the heck out of them). And although I don't really know you, you're probably a pretty decent guy, too. Hell, you like bicycling so you can't be all bad. Peace. I'll save my gun discussions for the gun forums, the motorcycle discussions for the two wheel forums and since this is was guitar forum, I'll talk about other random stuff here. All I know for sure is this cold weather is irritating, but opening day of baseball is less than a hundred days away! Oh, and I think I'll go play some guitar now.
|
|
|
Post by Fingerplucked on Jan 10, 2016 21:51:37 GMT -5
Xyrn, I don’t see any point in continuing the discussion with you. Continue on your own if you like. If you manage to come up with something interesting I may change my mind. Fine. I thought we were being adults. Points, counterpoints, etc. Then you accuse me of insulting you and I ask you to specify when, and now you take your ball and go home, whatever. Listen, FP, I'm really not trying to be a dick or goad you into a reply, I'm just frustrated that your side thinks my side are all lunatics on the brink of becoming horrible criminals. I'm a fairly decent person, I work hard at my job, I love my family, and I love America, I just can't stand the leadership, either side of the aisle, they're out of touch and effing things up for everyone with more regulations on top of more regulations. I've been on the internet a loooong time and have learned by now that heated debate rarely goes as well as if people were face to face (but knowing that doesn't mean I take my own dang advice to stay the heck out of them). And although I don't really know you, you're probably a pretty decent guy, too. Hell, you like bicycling so you can't be all bad. Peace. I'll save my gun discussions for the gun forums, the motorcycle discussions for the two wheel forums and since this is was guitar forum, I'll talk about other random stuff here. All I know for sure is this cold weather is irritating, but opening day of baseball is less than a hundred days away! Oh, and I think I'll go play some guitar now. You can talk about guns if you want to. There’s nothing stopping you. You were the one who said they were tired of debating the point. Don’t talk about me taking my ball and going home. That was you. Don’t tell me I’ve got my head in the sand. Don’t tell me I want to be a subject rather than a citizen. Don’t tell me I’m an anti-constitutionalist. You don’t have to demean the other guy to make your point. Not if there’s any validity to the point. Just say what you have to say. Try to be persuasive if you can. Try for a compelling argument. Do whatever the hell you want to do but don’t insult the other guy just because he thinks you’re wrong. Nobody called you a lunatic. Nobody accused you of being on the brink of criminality. The only thing I accused you of is not understanding that as a gun owner, you are part of the problem. You are increasing the danger for us all. You are safer without your gun. I’m safer if you didn’t have your gun too. I am a decent guy. You seemed to be a decent guy as well, which is why I keep cutting you slack in these gun threads. But with the way you’ve been arguing I started wondering about that. Let’s start over. Clean slate. All insults behind us. So is it too early to say that I really like what Obama’s done this last week or so? The executive actions won’t change a whole lot. What I think is more important is his plea to voters to make gun control a voting issue. I like that he’s publicly saying he will not support a fellow Democrat who does not support better controls. It’s about time Democrats started openly advocating reasonable controls. I also like that Obama invited the NRA to his town hall meeting on gun controls. The NRA was too scared to show up, of course, but I give Obama credit for inviting his critics to an open, public discussion.
|
|
|
Post by Village Idiot on Jan 10, 2016 22:14:26 GMT -5
Ariana Grande Explains Her Perma-Pony After endless criticism for always wearing a high ponytail, the singer revealed the reason behind the do: Years of coloring her hair for her role on Sam and Cat left it extremely damaged, and a pony was the best way to camoflage. She wrote on her instagram, "As annoying as it is for y'all to look at the same hairstyle all the time, it's all that works for now (and I'm comfortable for the first time in years)."
|
|
|
Post by xyrn on Jan 10, 2016 22:24:42 GMT -5
Jim, if you oppose the 2nd Amendment you ARE opposing the Constitution. How would it sound if I was claiming that the 1st Amendment was ripe for some reasonable controls? Crazy, right? Those are erosions on our Constitution, which is untenable. That is what I mean by "head in the sand" and preferring subject-life to citizenry. Are those the insults you're talking about? They are not insults, there is nothing about telling someone that they are completely wrong about an issue that is insulting, insults would be taking about your looks or intelligence or your family, none of which I have done our would do. And, as a gun owner I am NOT part of "the problem", in my opinion it is people like you that want to curtail gun ownership that are part of "the problem." Of course, we're likely taking about different things as "the problem". Maybe that's what we should really be discussing, what IS the big problem in the US? I think it's a deceitful government that wants more and more control over everything, less diversity of thought and less freedom and opportunity for the governed. (Oh, and you are certainly safer if I have my gun; if I don't it means it was stolen in which case people in general may be less safe, but you specifically have nothing to fear from me if you're not crawling through my window at night, so I really hope you didn't mean to say that I'm a threat to you.)
|
|
|
Post by xyrn on Jan 10, 2016 22:26:03 GMT -5
Is VI trying to lighten up this with humor or has he been hacked??? This is the second hair post he's made in mere minutes... Ariana Grande Explains Her Perma-Pony After endless criticism for always wearing a high ponytail, the singer revealed the reason behind the do: Years of coloring her hair for her role on Sam and Cat left it extremely damaged, and a pony was the best way to camoflage. She wrote on her instagram, "As annoying as it is for y'all to look at the same hairstyle all the time, it's all that works for now (and I'm comfortable for the first time in years)."
|
|
|
Post by james on Jan 10, 2016 22:37:11 GMT -5
It's all going a bit Bundy!
|
|
|
Post by Village Idiot on Jan 10, 2016 22:46:33 GMT -5
The instagram Haircut reveal Stars used to wait for red carpet events to show off a new do. But this year, as more and more celebs chopped trendy bobs (like Amma Stone, Lauren Conrad and Taylor Swift), they shared the news via fun social media posts.
|
|
|
Post by billhammond on Jan 10, 2016 22:47:43 GMT -5
Are those the insults you're talking about? They are not insults, there is nothing about telling someone that they are completely wrong about an issue that is insulting, insults would be taking about your looks or intelligence or your family, none of which I have done our would do. Well, Kris, I've got to say that this is far from factual, verifiable statement. You may not find it insulting, but if someone told me I have my head in the sand after I calmly laid out my my heartfelt opinion on a given issue, I would certainly reserve the right to be offended: "I'm tired of debating this with you and others that clearly have their heads in the sand, I know that what I believe is true and there is little point trying to persuade those of you who want to live as subjects rather than citizens." Argue the points, fine, but labels don't help harmony in any way.
|
|
|
Post by fauxmaha on Jan 10, 2016 23:02:50 GMT -5
When it comes to social issues, the last 83 years have been hard on those who would see liberty diminished. The tide even seems to have turned against the "war on drugs".
I see no reason that the gun debate will turn out any different. The fact that that particular liberty is explicitly written into the constitution is the least of the prohibitionists' troubles.
|
|
|
Post by xyrn on Jan 10, 2016 23:14:20 GMT -5
Are those the insults you're talking about? They are not insults, there is nothing about telling someone that they are completely wrong about an issue that is insulting, insults would be taking about your looks or intelligence or your family, none of which I have done our would do. Well, Kris, I've got to say that this is far from factual, verifiable statement. You may not find it insulting, but if someone told me I have my head in the sand after I calmly laid out my my heartfelt opinion on a given issue, I would certainly reserve the right to be offended: "I'm tired of debating this with you and others that clearly have their heads in the sand, I know that what I believe is true and there is little point trying to persuade those of you who want to live as subjects rather than citizens." Argue the points, fine, but labels don't help harmony in any way. Bill, I've been told in this same thread that as a gun owner I am a danger to society in general and Jim also specifically stated that he'd be safer if I didn't have a gun. I find THAT insulting. Jim, I am sorry for posting things you felt were personal insults, that was not my intent. Now, WTF is going on with VI's posts? I didn't think he was big into fashion and style, but then again, maybe he needs a new kitchen...
|
|
|
Post by millring on Jan 10, 2016 23:18:45 GMT -5
Do you realize that if Vinton was in Germany, we would be reading "Vinton" in the thread title, but our minds would be thinking "Winton"?
Same goes for Bobby.
|
|
|
Post by Fingerplucked on Jan 10, 2016 23:28:06 GMT -5
Well, Kris, I've got to say that this is far from factual, verifiable statement. You may not find it insulting, but if someone told me I have my head in the sand after I calmly laid out my my heartfelt opinion on a given issue, I would certainly reserve the right to be offended: "I'm tired of debating this with you and others that clearly have their heads in the sand, I know that what I believe is true and there is little point trying to persuade those of you who want to live as subjects rather than citizens." Argue the points, fine, but labels don't help harmony in any way. Bill, I've been told in this same thread that as a gun owner I am a danger to society in general and Jim also specifically stated that he'd be safer if I didn't have a gun. I find THAT insulting. Jim, I am sorry for posting things you felt were personal insults, that was not my intent. Now, WTF is going on with VI's posts? I didn't think he was big into fashion and style, but then again, maybe he needs a new kitchen... Like I said, we can just put the insults behind us. I accept that they were not meant as insults. And yes, I said that I’d be safer if you didn’t have a gun. I didn’t say that because I think you’re going to shoot me, I’m just speaking generalities. Gun fatalities almost always are suicides, accidents and homicides. They are almost never a result of self defense. With accuracy rates like that, you might as well be using grenades or chemical weapons for self defense. Which reminds me. Why don’t gun owners just use pepper spray? Wouldn’t that solve most of the problems?
|
|
|
Post by epaul on Jan 10, 2016 23:35:50 GMT -5
Kris,
You obviously haven't seen VI post-operation.
Todd, I think the Beyonce's Betty Page doo would be darling on you. I can understand why you like the Betty Boop thing you have going and would want to stick with it, but you can always go back. (Oooh, this is fun, isn't it?) I might have a little surprise for everyone myself. Check me out on Facebook tomorrow, Soundhole gang!
|
|
|
Post by Fingerplucked on Jan 10, 2016 23:55:20 GMT -5
Not liking the second amendment does not make me an anti-constitutionalist. I think the constitution was a great compromise. We have the oldest surviving constitution in the world. It’s not perfect. Our forefathers knew they didn’t know everything and couldn’t possibly plan for every contingency. That’s why the constitution allows for amendments: as conditions dictate, the constitution can be changed. It’s designed to be changed. Not in a Rick Perry “Hey, let’s change seven amendments” kind of way, but with overwhelming agreement, the mechanism to add, delete or modify provisions is already in place.
Treating blacks and women as sub-human was part of the constitution. Attitudes changed after long struggles over hundreds of years. We amended the constitution to reflect our changing values. I think gun ownership will eventually follow the same path. But just as treating blacks as 5/5ths of a person and allowing women to vote were achieved through constitutional processes, so will meaningful limitations on gun ownership. Obama will not show up at your door to take away your guns. A bunch of anti-gun yahoos in cowboy hats taking over a bird sanctuary in Manhattan will not cause all guns to disappear. Probably none of what the NRA tells you that you should should fear is something that you should fear.
The country’s attitude about gun violence is changing. How much it changes and how long it takes remains to be seen. Blacks have been discriminated since our earliest history and they still don’t have total equality, although they’re certainly much closer than they were 70 years ago. By contrast, the LGBT community has seen relatively rapid results that can be measured in decades rather than centuries.
If you respect our democracy and the freedoms granted in the constitution, not just one amendment, you no doubt see how ludicrous it is to claim that someone who doesn’t like part of the constitution is anti-constitutionalist.
|
|