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Post by jdd2 on Feb 10, 2016 6:17:06 GMT -5
So that's Trumpty Dumpty's slogan (copyrighted, I think). At any rate, it's ringing bells, or he is.
The slogan implies that America is not great now, that it's lost its mojo. That something's wrong.
Help me out here. When did that happen, and how? Was there a watershed event, or a cascade?
Not that I'm a big fan, but the Clinton years are remembered pretty well. Was peak America after that? Or maybe earlier it was Bush senior flip-flopping on no new taxes? Or was it the later Reagan years when Iran-Contra kind of tainted everything, and his senility was taking hold? Or was it the failed rescue raid during Carter in Iran--imagine if that had worked out better! Back further, was it leaving Vietnam, or Nixon?
Maybe measure when America lost/regained its greatness by when recessions and/or tax cuts happened, and/or market rallies-crashes?
The dollar is on the strong side now--is that American strength, or is it those other countries devaluing to take advantage of the US? (Incidentally, China is spending huge reserves to prop up its yuan. If it were free-floating it'd be far lower than it is now.)
Was it when people went sour on the war in Iraq?
The sense that infrastructure is crumbling (and that the interstates are more crowded than ever)?
Tho probably too recent, Ferguson/BLM? (could be another brick in the wall)
The US already has the biggest military (and military budget) in the world. Maybe America kind of slipped back there a little?
***
Ideas/comments?
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Post by millring on Feb 10, 2016 6:34:41 GMT -5
I want us to go back to the era of buckskins and muskets.
I want to go back to an age when a guy didn't have to walk 10 miles to find a squirrel for dinner.
I want to go back to yesteryear when a bath once a year with lye soap was good enough to last.
I want to return to bringing drinking water up to the house from the Flint River and not have it pumped up there through lead pipes.
I want my America pre-guacomole and pre-sushi.
I want an America where you could move 30 miles away from your inlaws and they couldn't come over on the weekend because there wasn't this damn interstate highway system making it easy for them to do so. If my mother-in-law want to visit, it should cost her a month's travel and a saddle sore backside.
I want an America where the only thing that could conceivably pass for a laugh track is a belly full of beer. And not that commercial beer either. I mean beer where you weren't really sure what the hell you were drinking, but after two or three of them, you didn't care.
I want a country to return back to its roots where we didn't need GPS, but knew that moss grows on the north side of the tree. Or the south side. One or the other. But it sure wasn't the east side or the west side. So, essentially, knowing it was the north side or the south side, at least we could track our lost latitudinally and not have to bother with longitude since we didn't have digital watches anyways.
I want an America that hasn't been warmed by carbon emissions. An America where you could really freeze your ass off every winter and even die walking between the house and the barn. THAT'S living. THAT'S the America I could love.
I want an America where a good Baptist wouldn't be criticized for loving his sheep and hating his wife.
I want to return to an America when a newspaper was a newspaper and didn't have all that hoity-toity colored ink. Black and white. That's how a newspaper should be. Black and white. Like a dalmation, damnation.
I want to see America great again like it was pre-meteor.
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Post by millring on Feb 10, 2016 6:37:41 GMT -5
I want to return to an America where we sat around playing these guitars and petting our cats.
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Post by brucemacneill on Feb 10, 2016 6:50:37 GMT -5
"I want my America pre-guacomole and pre-sushi. "
I'll agree with that one.
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Post by Fingerplucked on Feb 10, 2016 11:51:45 GMT -5
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Post by Fingerplucked on Feb 10, 2016 11:55:59 GMT -5
We can long for the good old days, whenever those were. All of us do it to some extent. But to get too wrapped up in nostalgic distortions of our past, we shouldn’t let it cloud the fact that in many ways our country is greater today than it ever was.
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Feb 10, 2016 12:02:00 GMT -5
Jdd2, I agree, Trump should be challenged to define his baseline for a great America. What did it look like? When was its peak? What years best represented America's greatness?
Then we could have meaningful conversations discussing the pluses and minuses of that wonder era versus now.
Now seems to have been pretty good to The Donald. In fact, a lot of people have made progress since the 30s, 40s, 50s.
Tell me, Donald, what era do you want to return to? Then we can talk about what that would mean to us.
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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Feb 10, 2016 12:05:58 GMT -5
"I want my America pre-guacomole and pre-sushi. " I'll agree with that one. I don't like sushi or guacamole, but since no one forces me to eat either one, I don't factor them into my American-greatness formula. |
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Post by brucemacneill on Feb 10, 2016 12:31:33 GMT -5
"I want my America pre-guacomole and pre-sushi. " I'll agree with that one. I don't like sushi or guacamole, but since no one forces me to eat either one, I don't factor them into my American-greatness formula. On a trip to California I ordered a fillet mignon (on expenses you know) and it came with a lump of green shit on top. I asked what the hell that was and the waiter looking perturbed in a gay sort of way said guacamole. Then I asked what guacamole was. Didn't sound good to me. Guess it's common out there. |
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Post by brucemacneill on Feb 10, 2016 12:34:07 GMT -5
At least there aren't any Republicans in Jim's pictures.
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Post by billhammond on Feb 10, 2016 12:47:04 GMT -5
At least there aren't any Republicans in Jim's pictures. Well, I see at least one -- Indiana's governor who supported sterilization. |
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Post by Village Idiot on Feb 10, 2016 13:05:42 GMT -5
Did he want to sterilize Trump?
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Post by Fingerplucked on Feb 10, 2016 13:18:32 GMT -5
At least there aren't any Republicans in Jim's pictures. Those pics weren’t meant as a commentary on Republicans. Republicans didn’t invent racism and bigotry. If you want to look at it as a Republican vs Democrat thing, you have to first consider that the Democrats weren’t around before 1828, and Republicans didn’t emerge until 1854. Then you have to control for Johnson’s betrayal of racists and bigots, and Nixon’s courting of the same group, accounting for their migration from Democrat to Republican. I wasn’t doing any of those things. I was reflecting on how far we’ve come while comparing it to what “we" might want to return to. |
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Post by brucemacneill on Feb 10, 2016 13:26:24 GMT -5
At least there aren't any Republicans in Jim's pictures. Those pics weren’t meant as a commentary on Republicans. Republicans didn’t invent racism and bigotry. If you want to look at it as a Republican vs Democrat thing, you have to first consider that the Democrats weren’t around before 1828, and Republicans didn’t emerge until 1854. Then you have to control for Johnson’s betrayal of racists and bigots, and Nixon’s courting of the same group, accounting for their migration from Democrat to Republican. I wasn’t doing any of those things. I was reflecting on how far we’ve come while comparing it to what “we" might want to return to. Yes, I know you were. I was making a joke. |
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Post by fauxmaha on Feb 10, 2016 13:36:51 GMT -5
We can long for the good old days, whenever those were. All of us do it to some extent. But to get too wrapped up in nostalgic distortions of our past, we shouldn’t let it cloud the fact that in many ways our country is greater today than it ever was. And yet we voted for "Hope and Change". |
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Post by Fingerplucked on Feb 10, 2016 13:47:12 GMT -5
We can long for the good old days, whenever those were. All of us do it to some extent. But to get too wrapped up in nostalgic distortions of our past, we shouldn’t let it cloud the fact that in many ways our country is greater today than it ever was. And yet we voted for "Hope and Change". Say what? I didn’t say that things are better today than they’ll ever be. There is no reason not to continue striving toward an even greater country and society. I’ll let Republicans speak for themselves, but Democrats are divided only on how to progress. Bernie is setting his sights high and is talking about political revolution. He wants to leapfrog toward a more just and equitable society. Hillary is setting her sights a bit lower but more comprehensively, and is talking about evolution. She wants to build on what we have through incremental changes toward a more just and equitable society. If Obama hadn’t already used “Hope and Change,” either candidate could use it as an effective slogan this time around. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 14:00:47 GMT -5
Apparently the fact that America isn't and never has been perfect still comes as a great shock to "progressives" but as a blogger I read likes to say, "Which way are the rafts going?" I didn't come by raft but I like living here and hope to be allowed to stay if Trump becomes president.
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Post by Fingerplucked on Feb 10, 2016 14:02:53 GMT -5
Apparently the fact that America isn't and never has been perfect still comes as a great shock to "progressives" but as a blogger I read likes to say, "Which way are the rafts going?" I didn't come by raft but I like living here and hope to be allowed to stay if Trump becomes president. Can you say “Canadian internment camps?" |
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Post by Doug on Feb 10, 2016 14:14:21 GMT -5
Tom is just recognizance for the dog sled invasion.  But we have a defense, a bunch of bitches in heat.  |
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Post by Marshall on Feb 10, 2016 14:18:17 GMT -5
We can long for the good old days, whenever those were. All of us do it to some extent. But to get too wrapped up in nostalgic distortions of our past, we shouldn’t let it cloud the fact that in many ways our country is greater today than it ever was. There was a time after WWII where America was seen as THE world power. The rest of the first world was destroyed. Second and third world countries were little more than medieval. There was a sense of moral correctness too in our overall benevolence to the rest of the world. Our scientific advancement was par none. When it came time to race the evil soviets to the moon, we blew past them like they were standing still. Our culture; music, movies, TV became the desired model for everywhere else. That's when America was Grrrrrr-eat ! It's a period most of us have lived through. Or at least benefitted from. But it was an artificial construct. The result of the previous powers of the world obliterating each other. America filled the vacuum. The vacuum is gone now, and never will be again. In fact it's more likely that some day we'll get involved in some mega conflict in the world and get surpassed by some other rising star of mankind. Now I love this country. There are wonderful things about it's economy and the spirit of it's people that make it still one of the best places in the world to live and be. But it's not the singular power or the singular quality of life in the world anymore. Those days are gone, no matter what the Don says. |
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