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Post by aquaduct on Aug 3, 2016 11:06:49 GMT -5
Glad you're enjoying the new ride, Gene.
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Post by coachdoc on Aug 3, 2016 11:16:13 GMT -5
Cool grits are lumpy and gooey. Ick.
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Post by billhammond on Aug 3, 2016 11:26:12 GMT -5
I don't think this is the answer but it's a step in the right direction. How fast recharging stations can be built (for all elec) will determine how long it is till we are all (80%+) elec. The batteries are up to the min required now. I think in the long run elec will win because internal combustion is just too inefficient, too much heat waste, the same reason LEDs are winning. And where is all this electricity coming from? Coal-fired plants?
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Post by mccoyblues on Aug 3, 2016 12:34:48 GMT -5
I don't know the statistics or the science behind the question but as a novice I would think that the energy used to build the battery and recharge the car is much less than the energy used to build an internal combustion engine, drill for oil, refine the gasoline and include the environmental impact of the exhaust.
Not only are you never going to buy gas again, you aren't paying for oil changes either.
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 3, 2016 12:51:57 GMT -5
I don't think this is the answer but it's a step in the right direction. How fast recharging stations can be built (for all elec) will determine how long it is till we are all (80%+) elec. The batteries are up to the min required now. I think in the long run elec will win because internal combustion is just too inefficient, too much heat waste, the same reason LEDs are winning. And where is all this electricity coming from? Coal-fired plants? As I understand it now, mostly natural gas fired plants. Of course natural gas is from fracking which is as hated as coal. Batteries have a limited life before they lose efficiency and need to be replaced, even lithium ones. I wonder how much a battery replacement costs for a Tesla or any other electric car. It used to be estimated at about $6K for a Chevy Volt every 5 years or so but that may have changed.
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Post by billhammond on Aug 3, 2016 12:52:48 GMT -5
I don't know the statistics or the science behind the question but as a novice I would think that the energy used to build the battery and recharge the car is much less than the energy used to build an internal combustion engine, drill for oil, refine the gasoline and include the environmental impact of the exhaust. Not only are you never going to buy gas again, you aren't paying for oil changes either. Here is some research from last year that tackles the topic: www.cnsnews.com/commentary/savannah-saunders/electric-cars-are-not-green-public-led-believe#.
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Post by gbacklin on Aug 3, 2016 13:35:22 GMT -5
Woooo boy, what have I done here. Let me just explain the 2 ways I charge my car (actually my wife's, but I know we will all keep this secret) - Wall connector coming from my fuse box. Yes it is the same current I pull for my lights and air conditioner, but around 1/2 - 2 2/12 hours per day depending on how much I drive. The usage would be equivalent to me turning my air conditioner really cool on 95-100 degree days.
- Supercharger which is a self contained solar panel structure that when it isn't charging any cars, it is putting the energy into the local community's grid.
I've had my head buried for the last 40 years in source code so I do not know the coal aspect of things so I cannot say anything about my home use of electricity, and I believe that my use of the Superchargers is not harming the environment due to the nature of the self contained solar panels. (Disclaimer: I do not know how much pollution was created to make the panels). So I will not feel any guilt about I cannot speak about the production of batteries and how it harms the environment, I am totally ignorant of the details of that. All I know is that I have a car that is different than anything I have ever driven. The driving of it is a very different experience than you will have with any other type of vehicle. If I sit in my garage with the door closed, I cannot die from CO. I spent 5 years of my life working on cars, pumping gas for Standard oil and have sucked in more poisons that I ever wanted to, and now I do not have that issue with this car. And the most, most, most important beyond anything that could ever be said by anyone... "My wife is happy with her car !" If she is a happy camper, then all is good and peaceful in the world for me
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Post by fauxmaha on Aug 3, 2016 14:05:02 GMT -5
Is it free to plug into the public charging stations?
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Post by gbacklin on Aug 3, 2016 14:22:36 GMT -5
Is it free to plug into the public charging stations? For Tesla owners yes with the Superchargers, if a Tesla owner goes to a non Tesla public charging station using a supplied converter plug, there may be a fee which is up to the disgression of the non Tesla owner.
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Post by fauxmaha on Aug 3, 2016 14:27:41 GMT -5
Is it free to plug into the public charging stations? For Tesla owners yes with the Superchargers, if a Tesla owner goes to a non Tesla public charging station using a supplied converter plug, there may be a fee which is up to the disgression of the non Tesla owner. So Tesla is funding the "supercharger" stations?
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 3, 2016 14:33:16 GMT -5
For Tesla owners yes with the Superchargers, if a Tesla owner goes to a non Tesla public charging station using a supplied converter plug, there may be a fee which is up to the disgression of the non Tesla owner. So Tesla is funding the "supercharger" stations? Yes, with government money.
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Post by gbacklin on Aug 3, 2016 15:19:36 GMT -5
My guess, and it is just a guess is that since they contribute to the grid for the community that they are built when they are not charging the cars, this would help the local community ?
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 3, 2016 15:29:29 GMT -5
My guess, and it is just a guess is that since they contribute to the grid for the community that they are built when they are not charging the cars, this would help the local community ? They don't contribute to the grid. Supercharger stations are connected to power plants just like everything else. There's no way to deliver that kind of charging power with only solar. Some of the stations have canopies which support solar panels that offsets some of the power demands, but it's just a small percentage.
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Post by fauxmaha on Aug 3, 2016 15:32:04 GMT -5
So Tesla is funding the "supercharger" stations? Yes, with government money. I get that. I'm just trying to sort out the business model that would cause charging stations to be placed as frequently as gas stations are today. I don't know how many gas stations there are in Omaha. They are everywhere. Just off the top of my head I can count seven within a mile of my office. Gene describes a process of carefully planning trips to "leapfrog" from one charging station to the next. When you look at those maps, what they are doing is placing them at selected intervals on major highways, but that will still leave vast swatches of countryside as "dead zones". Can you plug these things in to ordinary 110V outlets? How long does it take to charge a more or less full depleted battery using an ordinary outlet? I could see a situation where businesses put charging stations in their parking lots as a way to attract traffic. Coffee shops and such, perhaps. The kind of place where the idea of having people come in and be forced to kill a half hour would be good for business. Or maybe the technology evolves to where inductive charging stations are built into every parking spot and businesses just consider it "overhead" expense like blacktop is today. I still don't see this adding up. Either the cost of charging stations ends up being embedded into the cost of the car, or there is going to have to be a revenue model built around them.
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 3, 2016 15:41:36 GMT -5
Yes, with government money. I get that. I'm just trying to sort out the business model that would cause charging stations to be placed as frequently as gas stations are today. I don't know how many gas stations there are in Omaha. They are everywhere. Just off the top of my head I can count seven within a mile of my office. Gene describes a process of carefully planning trips to "leapfrog" from one charging station to the next. When you look at those maps, what they are doing is placing them at selected intervals on major highways, but that will still leave vast swatches of countryside as "dead zones". Can you plug these things in to ordinary 110V outlets? How long does it take to charge a more or less full depleted battery using an ordinary outlet? I could see a situation where businesses put charging stations in their parking lots as a way to attract traffic. Coffee shops and such, perhaps. The kind of place where the idea of having people come in and be forced to kill a half hour would be good for business. Or maybe the technology evolves to where inductive charging stations are built into every parking spot and businesses just consider it "overhead" expense like blacktop is today. I still don't see this adding up. Either the cost of charging stations ends up being embedded into the cost of the car, or there is going to have to be a revenue model built around them. Not to rain on Gene's joy with his new car, but have I ever mentioned that I don't foresee electric vehicles ever being competitive......?
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Post by mccoyblues on Aug 3, 2016 15:43:49 GMT -5
Consider this as we debate gas stations vs charging stations.
How many old, closed down gas stations are out there that turn into environmentally contaminated sites from those old rotting tanks in the ground. How much harm could an aging out of date electrical outlet cause the environment.
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Post by billhammond on Aug 3, 2016 15:44:04 GMT -5
They do seem to work well on golf courses!
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 3, 2016 15:45:51 GMT -5
Oh, and the cost of Tesla's supercharger stations is embedded into the outrageous price. Tesla views it as a competitive edge over other electrics.
At least until the "cheap" Model 3 comes out. Then you'll probably have to pay for the privilege of charging.
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Post by majorminor on Aug 3, 2016 15:48:49 GMT -5
Peter - I know how fond you are of lay people popping off, but it seems to me that the shift is underway and it's only a matter of when and not so much if any more. I think advances in the electric car tech will continue to improve and gain more acceptance. Not in BF Montana maybe but in larger cities.
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 3, 2016 15:49:49 GMT -5
Consider this as we debate gas stations vs charging stations. How many old, closed down gas stations are out there that turn into environmentally contaminated sites from those old rotting tanks in the ground. How much harm could an aging out of date electrical outlet cause the environment. Gas stations are built because there's a market and a demand for them. Charging stations are built in order to create demand for an inferior product. Electric can't compete in a free market.
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