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Post by epaul on Oct 17, 2017 18:26:30 GMT -5
I think there is a meta-game at play here... If you want to make sense of it, consider this photo: Ok, to be fair, I looked at this photo a second time. And I reached the same over-riding thought as I did the first time...she's kind of hot!
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Post by fauxmaha on Oct 17, 2017 18:29:42 GMT -5
How ever hot you think she is, it's no where near as hot as she thinks Obama is.
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Post by epaul on Oct 17, 2017 18:39:43 GMT -5
It is kind of a "Who does not belong here" photo.
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Oct 17, 2017 20:49:10 GMT -5
The premise of the thread, being partisan and willfully blind to the lies of the other side, invited incivility. I was, and remain, curious what makes the "other side" tick. Minus the quoted article, here is the original post. Please detail the invitation to incivility. "Transparently lying about what his predecessors have done regarding fallen soldiers. This is not a partisan issue. Every Democrat, Republican and Martian knows that both Obama and Bush did what Trump claims they didn't do. When caught lying, his defense is to what he supposedly "heard." Where does one go to "hear" such nonsense? Why lie about this, of all things? What is the point? Is he crazy? Is he a compulsive liar? Is he, as some like to assert, just "shaking things up?" Is it because he is impulsively defensive about the fact that more than a week went by since four soldiers died in Niger and he has not contacted the families or made any public statement? (Busy golfing and Tweeting, I guess.) This is not normal behavior. "
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Oct 17, 2017 20:57:03 GMT -5
He didn't read the phone book. This, a lie, is what he said: “The traditional way, if you look at President Obama and other Presidents, most of them didn’t make calls,” Trump said during a White House Rose Garden press conference with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. “A lot of them didn’t make calls. I like to call when it’s appropriate, when I think I’m able to do it.” Minutes later, after a reporter challenged Trump’s comments, the President said he wasn’t sure if his allegation about Obama was true. “I don’t know if he did (call),” Trump said. “I was told he didn’t often and a lot of Presidents don’t. They write letters ... I do a combination of both. Sometimes it’s a very difficult thing to do, but I do a combination of both. President Obama, I think, probably did sometimes and maybe sometimes he didn’t. I don’t know. That’s what I was told.” If this is your threshold for a lie, it's pretty damn low. By this measure Obama's entire career has been a hienous fraud. And even as much of an incompetent boob as I believe Obama to be, I can't bring myself to believe it was lying. That would imply motives not in evidence. Don't blame malice when simple ignorance will suffice. Unless of course you're just a lying POS liberal.If I wanted to post Trump's lies, I could do so all day long. And you could counter with what you believe to be Obama's lies. And on and on. Tit for tat. This particular lie seems unusual to me, even as politicians' lies go. I am looking for an example of Obama telling an easily disproved lie about something where his intention was, clearly, to make other Presidents look bad. Or, a lie that any POTUS has told about other POTUS' paying respect- or not paying respect- to fallen soldiers. Malice? Ignorance? Hell, I don't know. But if I am a "lying POS liberal" I ought to be fairly easy to refute.
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Post by james on Oct 17, 2017 20:59:37 GMT -5
You are not a voice crying in the wilderness Paul.
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Post by AlanC on Oct 17, 2017 21:12:16 GMT -5
"We didn't get Trump because I and others can spot a man who either doesn't care about the truth or can't distinguish it from his own fantasies and sales pitches; we got Trump because enough of the electorate (in crucial parts of the electoral map) either turned off their bullshit detectors or never had decently programmed units to begin with".
I'm not disallowing the above but could I respectfully posit that there might have been a not-insignificant portion of the country who were extremely adverse to Hillary Clinton for reasons of their own and could not in good conscience pull the lever for her? It just seemed like you were saying the blame for having DT piloting the ship lies entirely at the feet of people who have something wrong with them.
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Post by david on Oct 17, 2017 21:23:18 GMT -5
If this is your threshold for a lie, it's pretty damn low. By this measure Obama's entire career has been a hienous fraud. And even as much of an incompetent boob as I believe Obama to be, I can't bring myself to believe it was lying. That would imply motives not in evidence. Don't blame malice when simple ignorance will suffice. Unless of course you're just a lying POS liberal.If I wanted to post Trump's lies, I could do so all day long. And you could counter with what you believe to be Obama's lies. And on and on. Tit for tat. This particular lie seems unusual to me, even as politicians' lies go. I am looking for an example of Obama telling an easily disproved lie about something where his intention was, clearly, to make other Presidents look bad. Or, a lie that any POTUS has told about other POTUS' paying respect- or not paying respect- to fallen soldiers. Malice? Ignorance? Hell, I don't know. But if I am a "lying POS liberal" I ought to be fairly easy to refute. I suspect it is his desire to try to make himself seem superior to others. He understands that he simply needs to say it and some people will believe it. He has the podium and those who disagree present "alternate facts." He is feeding his followers and they gobble it up. They want the fantasy that he is giving them, so why bother with reality. Politicians have been doing something similar for hundreds of years. Trumpet is just more blatant with his lies, and has a more obnoxious in-your-face delivery of lies.
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 17, 2017 22:04:42 GMT -5
Alan, I don't think the election turned on any single factor, and I'm very aware of the extent and degree of anti-Hillary sentiment. (I've watched the right-wing propaganda machine operate for a couple decades now.) And of the failure of the DNC and the Clinton campaign to grasp the mood of parts of the nation that have felt shat upon for a long time. But Trump could not have won without the support of people who bought into his vision (if I might dignify it so) and managed to shrug off every crass remark and ethnic slur. Between Trump's energizing of that segment and the Clinton campaign's failure to connect with what should have been her core constituency, Trump managed to get the Electoral votes he needed without getting a popular-vote majority.
Just how bad do you have to think Hillary is to think that Trump is the lesser of two evils? And plenty of Trump supporters I hear see him as anything but that--they're fans.
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Post by millring on Oct 18, 2017 4:54:54 GMT -5
Just how bad do you have to think Hillary is to think that Trump is the lesser of two evils? And plenty of Trump supporters I hear see him as anything but that--they're fans. It's not how bad she was. It was the particular brand of how bad she was. It was the fact that the press's "October Surprise" backfired so badly because they failed to note that their bringing up Trump's sexual predatory nature only reminded most of American that Hillary was exactly the wrong alternative candidate. She could not have been the more exactly wrong candidate if the point was to, with a vote, make a public statement about sexual predators. She and the Democrats supported one throughout the '90s. ...and then we were reminded that, despite her and the Democrats having supported such predatory behavior throughout the '90s...she had the audacity to call us "A Basket of Deplorables". And of the few supporters of Trump that I know, nobody shrugs off every misstatement.
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Post by jdd2 on Oct 18, 2017 5:24:01 GMT -5
I guess just let healthcare collapse, eh? And along with the savings there squeeze a little more revenue out of the middle class while cutting rates for corporations and the rich.
"Nyah, nyah, nyah, we really rubbed the political establishment's nose in it, didn't we...," said the deplorables.
Kasich/Biden (or Biden/Kasich) should run as a duo from the get-go in 2020.
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Post by jdd2 on Oct 18, 2017 5:37:50 GMT -5
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 18, 2017 5:42:12 GMT -5
If this is your threshold for a lie, it's pretty damn low. By this measure Obama's entire career has been a hienous fraud. And even as much of an incompetent boob as I believe Obama to be, I can't bring myself to believe it was lying. That would imply motives not in evidence. Don't blame malice when simple ignorance will suffice. Unless of course you're just a lying POS liberal.If I wanted to post Trump's lies, I could do so all day long. And you could counter with what you believe to be Obama's lies. And on and on. Tit for tat. This particular lie seems unusual to me, even as politicians' lies go. I am looking for an example of Obama telling an easily disproved lie about something where his intention was, clearly, to make other Presidents look bad. Or, a lie that any POTUS has told about other POTUS' paying respect- or not paying respect- to fallen soldiers. Malice? Ignorance? Hell, I don't know. But if I am a "lying POS liberal" I ought to be fairly easy to refute. You are easy to refute and have been refuted. Several pretty intelligent folks have answered your question about what makes us tick and why we believe what we believe. Every time one of these inane "Why are Trump supporters such morally bankrupt idiots?" questions comes up, I have to shake my head in disbelief. I wonder if the question comes from someone who's spent any time on this planet. Trump has a tense staff meeting over Afghanistan and suddenly he "knows more than the generals". Seriously? Haven't these folks had a real job with a real boss? Isn't that how staff meetings sometimes go? Trump says something in Puerto Rico about how few deaths there were relative to Katrina and suddenly he's Satan incarnate? Seriously? Anybody here remember Katrina? And the pounding Bush and his FEMA took? So Trump says something about how effective the response to recent hurricanes has been- probably mostly to boost responder's morale- and somehow me and others like me who get what he said are lambasted as Satan' spawn for committing the unforgivable sin of having another take that sees his point? And now you. What you've quoted here doesn't rise to the level of a lie unless you're just dead set on seeing that. So who cares? Certainly not me. I've played ball with the professional assholes in DC. You guy's are child's play in comparison. You want your self righteous anger, fine. Maybe you want to start doing something about it. Like winning elections.
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Post by jdd2 on Oct 18, 2017 6:21:51 GMT -5
... Anybody here remember Katrina? And the pounding Bush and his FEMA took? .... I think FEMA learned from Katrina, and while Irma was kind of anti-climatic (anti-climactic?!?!), there were quite a few citizen-volunteers from LA who swung over to help with Harvey. Again, FEMA learned from Katrina, and that has been a years-long process, it is not something that donnie-boy did in the last 8-9 months.
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Post by jdd2 on Oct 18, 2017 6:50:24 GMT -5
... Trump has a tense staff meeting over Afghanistan and suddenly he " knows more than the generals". Seriously? Haven't these folks had a real job with a real boss? Isn't that how staff meetings sometimes go? ... donnie-boy was saying that before he'd even met with the generals. Is that how your staff meetings go?
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 18, 2017 7:02:13 GMT -5
... Anybody here remember Katrina? And the pounding Bush and his FEMA took? .... I think FEMA learned from Katrina, and while Irma was kind of anti-climatic (anti-climactic?!?!), there were quite a few citizen-volunteers from LA who swung over to help with Harvey. Again, FEMA learned from Katrina, and that has been a years-long process, it is not something that donnie-boy did in the last 8-9 months. Um, do you have a point? It doesn't matter how they got there. The fact is they did. And they deserve recognition from their boss. Is that hard to understand?
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 18, 2017 7:03:50 GMT -5
... Trump has a tense staff meeting over Afghanistan and suddenly he " knows more than the generals". Seriously? Haven't these folks had a real job with a real boss? Isn't that how staff meetings sometimes go? ... donnie-boy was saying that before he'd even met with the generals. Is that how your staff meetings go? Certainly. Have you ever had a job? You know, one that involved a boss?
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Post by t-bob on Oct 18, 2017 7:23:37 GMT -5
Almost political people lies. They have to do it. Most the time they are stuck. When a person at the end of the day can write this little test ”pro/con” 1.When can sleep like a baby that’s wonderful 2. Then you probably he can’t sleep
That’s really long political thread I can’t do all the stuff I’m going to the beach in Mexico
Adios
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Post by fauxmaha on Oct 18, 2017 7:25:22 GMT -5
... Trump has a tense staff meeting over Afghanistan and suddenly he " knows more than the generals". Seriously? Haven't these folks had a real job with a real boss? Isn't that how staff meetings sometimes go? ... donnie-boy was saying that before he'd even met with the generals. Is that how your staff meetings go? For me, the last straw was when Trump said “I think that I’m a better speechwriter than my speechwriters, I know more about policies on any particular issue than my policy directors. And I’ll tell you right now that I’m going to think I’m a better political director than my political director.”
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 18, 2017 7:41:04 GMT -5
donnie-boy was saying that before he'd even met with the generals. Is that how your staff meetings go? For me, the last straw was when Trump said “I think that I’m a better speechwriter than my speechwriters, I know more about policies on any particular issue than my policy directors. And I’ll tell you right now that I’m going to think I’m a better political director than my political director.” Those of course actually spoken by Obama, in case anyone missed the irony.
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