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Post by fauxmaha on Dec 28, 2017 9:54:56 GMT -5
Normally, I don't pay a lot of attention to this sort of thing. Small time assholes will always be out there, doing what small time assholes do. But this one pisses me off: Link.Short version: Guy walks into his parent's house and shoots both of them, and his niece, in the head. All three dead on the scene. That's bad enough, but it get's worse. Same guy shot and killed his wife back in 1998. With their three young kids in the house. He fled to Tennessee, was apprehended, returned to Nebraska...and ended up serving a total of only 11 years in prison. Worse still: The niece who was killed was 18 and a senior at Lydia's high school. They weren't friends, but Lydia says she knew who she was. Apparently a very bright, promising young person. And then to compound his own stupidity, this asshole fled the state this time as well, and went right back to Tennessee. I guess we should be thankful that he is such an idiot as to flee to the same hide out as the last time, but somehow that level of dumb just angers me even more. Ugh. |
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Post by mnhermit on Dec 28, 2017 9:59:19 GMT -5
There are times when I hope that Dante's Inferno exists.
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Post by theevan on Dec 28, 2017 10:45:49 GMT -5
That is miserable. But released after 11 years? Who the hell?
The death penalty, carried out in a timely fashion, would have assured the world of no more trouble from this blot on humanity.
"Okay release him!
What, he's already dead? Well, okay."
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Post by Marshall on Dec 28, 2017 14:15:31 GMT -5
I think being lowered into boiling oil and inch/minute would be a workable solution.
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Post by RickW on Dec 28, 2017 18:59:05 GMT -5
I can’t even begin to understand what makes someone do this. No one can, unless you’re that person. Who knows what went wrong in his lfe; maybe he has a mental illness, maybe he’s got drug and alcohol problems, maybe they tortured him when he was a kid.
I don’t really get worked up about the death penalty, as in, jumping up and down and screaming for revenge. After the first time, if there was no doubt, he should have just been shot and buried, because, really, what point is there in assuming he’s going to be of any use to anyone ever again?
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Post by david on Dec 28, 2017 20:52:39 GMT -5
Damn, damn, damn!
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Post by Village Idiot on Dec 28, 2017 21:31:31 GMT -5
That made the local news around here. I'm thinking of a mentally ill guy spurned on by a horrible life. He should have been permanently removed from society, but I just can't make myself support the death penalty.
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Post by lar on Dec 28, 2017 23:06:49 GMT -5
I'm not really comfortable with the idea of the death penalty. Each time I consider it, though, I come back to the one thing that can be said for it. It removes the possibility that the perpetrator can kill again. For that reason I agree with the death penalty in cases in which there is no doubt that the accused is guilty. I wouldn't want to see it in a case where all of the evidence was circumstantial.
I don't think the interests of the citizens of California were served very well by keeping Charles Manson alive all of those years. And years ago in Nebraska, Charlie Starkweather's execution guaranteed that a well-meaning parole board wasn't going to let him back on the street.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 29, 2017 0:11:09 GMT -5
It's possible to sentence someone with no possibility of parole. Then a guy like this would never get a chance to be out in the public ever again.
The cost of appeals for death penalty convictees is astronomical. It took 17 years for John Wayne Gacy to be execute with all the appeals. On NPR, they said the cost of appeals for death penalty cases in California vs the number of successful executions in the last 40 years amounts to a quarter billion $/execution. You can house a convict away a long time for that kind of change. Only ones that are winning are the attorneys.
So, you can build a strong case that the death penalty should be abolished on many fronts. It's not serrving society well.
But this schmuck should not have been ever allowed back in society. That's a tragic failure.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 4:30:24 GMT -5
It's possible to sentence someone with no possibility of parole. Then a guy like this would never get a chance to be out in the public ever again. The cost of appeals for death penalty convictees is astronomical. It took 17 years for John Wayne Gacy to be execute with all the appeals. On NPR, they said the cost of appeals for death penalty cases in California vs the number of successful executions in the last 40 years amounts to a quarter billion $/execution. You can house a convict away a long time for that kind of change. Only ones that are winning are the attorneys. So, you can build a strong case that the death penalty should be abolished on many fronts. It's not serrving society well. But this schmuck should not have been ever allowed back in society. That's a tragic failure. That's why many social conservatives want to "streamline" (translation: "remove most of the legal safeguards") the appellate process. They think these guys get too many bites at the apple, so they want to get rid of the apple. Having covered courts for years, you can find all sorts of cases where you think your judgment is better than a jury or a judge. You're probably wrong. Unless any of you sat through the guy's original trial (or plea negotiations) then it's really hard to second-guess the sentencing judge because you don't know the facts that were presented to the court. Nebraska is a state so full of "libtards" that it gave Trump 58 percent of its vote last year, so I don't really see that it's going to have a liberal bleeding-heart judiciary. No one disputes that what happened is a tragedy. But blame the perpetrator, not the judiciary. |
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Post by millring on Dec 29, 2017 5:16:16 GMT -5
They think these guys get too many bites at the apple Yeah, that's what "they" think. Yeah, that's what they "think". works either way. |
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Post by Doug on Dec 29, 2017 7:18:32 GMT -5
The argument against that is that some legislature in the future will change the rules. I can see the argument there but am still against the government deciding who dies.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 9:18:10 GMT -5
The argument against that is that some legislature in the future will change the rules. I can see the argument there but am still against the government deciding who dies. Doug's point is one that has always struck me. Why do social conservatives -- who put little trust in government and question it's competence at every turn -- blithely want to give government the ultimate power, namely taking the life of its own citizens? Especially when we have seen, time and again, incidents of wrongful convictions? |
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Post by millring on Dec 29, 2017 9:20:24 GMT -5
It's not entirely a question of the government doing everything or anything well or poorly. It's a question of the government doing what the government is supposed to do. It's a question of good government doing what government is the only or best means of doing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 9:21:10 GMT -5
All in all, there is something to be said for the death penalty. Hard to repeat offend. On the other hand, it's interesting that the left has no qualms about allowing the most defenseless among us to be put to death, mostly for the sake of convenience.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 9:55:52 GMT -5
As I suspected, there was a bit more to the backstory than just, "Same guy shot and killed his wife back in 1998. With their three young kids in the house. He fled to Tennessee, was apprehended, returned to Nebraska...and ended up serving a total of only 11 years in prison."
The suspect's name is John. W. Dalton Jr. and he was sentenced in 1999 for killing his wife. The two had been having marital problems. He pleaded guilty to manslaughter and use of a deadly weapon and got consecutive sentences of 10 years and 15 years, respectively. The sentencing judge told him he'd have to serve at least 10 years before being eligible for parole. At sentencing, he was given credit for the 428 days he'd already spent in custody awaiting his case's disposition.
The prosecutor said she agreed to a Qplea because it avoided having to put the couple's children -- who were 6, 5 and 3 at the time of the shooting -- on the witness stand. They saw the gun and heard the shots, but did not see the shooting. The prosecutor believed their testimony would be necessary to win a murder conviction. The victim's mother said she considered the plea and sentence "just."
Dalton was released from prison in 2010, so he made it seven years without re-offending.
Again, HE is the one at fault here, not the judge. And if you're the type who wants to do away with plea bargains, good luck with that. The court system would grind to a halt in about two weeks. There aren't enough lawyers, judges, bailiffs, courtroom clerks, court stenographers or other necessary personnel to handle all the trials that would result. And if you've got a civil case, get ready to wait a decade or so for it to ever get heard because courts have to give priority to criminal cases because of speedy-trial considerations.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 9:58:22 GMT -5
All in all, there is something to be said for the death penalty. Hard to repeat offend. On the other hand, it's interesting that the left has no qualms about allowing the most defenseless among us to be put to death, mostly for the sake of convenience. And in the contest to see how quickly somebody could bring up abortion once somebody else mentioned the death penalty, we have a WINNER! |
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Post by fauxmaha on Dec 29, 2017 10:06:56 GMT -5
Dalton was released from prison in 2010, so he made it seven years without re-offending. "The soft bigotry of low expectations." |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 10:31:19 GMT -5
Dalton was released from prison in 2010, so he made it seven years without re-offending. "The soft bigotry of low expectations." Most who re-offend do so much sooner. Obviously, nobody is defending this guy's alleged actions and it is absurd to try and read my comment as doing so. He alone is responsible for what he ischarged with. But I'm sure his parole officer will want to figure out how the crime unfolded, how he got the weapon, etc. |
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Post by PaulKay on Dec 29, 2017 11:08:02 GMT -5
It's possible to sentence someone with no possibility of parole. Then a guy like this would never get a chance to be out in the public ever again. The cost of appeals for death penalty convictees is astronomical. It took 17 years for John Wayne Gacy to be execute with all the appeals. On NPR, they said the cost of appeals for death penalty cases in California vs the number of successful executions in the last 40 years amounts to a quarter billion $/execution. You can house a convict away a long time for that kind of change. Only ones that are winning are the attorneys. So, you can build a strong case that the death penalty should be abolished on many fronts. It's not serrving society well. But this schmuck should not have been ever allowed back in society. That's a tragic failure. With so many on death row that have been subsequently found not guilty, why should anyone be worried about it? |
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