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Post by lar on Jan 11, 2018 22:01:10 GMT -5
I'm getting close to finishing off organizing the practice/recording space at the new house. Exciting stuff. For the first time I'll have room enough to record more than just me.
Once I get everything organized we're planning to record a demo CD of the polka band. There's just one problem. I have zero experience recording drums. I figure I can use my matched Rode condenser pencil mics for the snare, tom, and cymbals. I believe I need to acquire a mic for the bass drum.
I'm hoping to find a decent bass drum mic at a reasonable cost. Anyone have any ideas?
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Dub
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I'm gettin' so the past is the only thing I can remember.
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Post by Dub on Jan 11, 2018 22:39:55 GMT -5
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Post by RickW on Jan 12, 2018 0:49:26 GMT -5
How are you micing? Many moons ago, we would mic the bass drum, snare and hi hat separately, and two overheads. The toms, depending on how many there were, would have some a few spread out. The reason for doing all that is you really want to be able to separate them all in the mix, so you can set your gain up and down. Drums are a bitch to get sounding good and mixed well. We’d spend half our time getting ready to record a band just on drum setup.
We had SM57s, which seem to be a real standard for snare drums. Bass, seems to be mixed. Bass drum moves a lot of air, and the reviews on the web, some folks like it, some don’t. But I’m pretty sure that’s what we used before. I also remember stuffing the bass drum with a pillow to tone it down for recording.
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Post by Marty on Jan 12, 2018 3:12:20 GMT -5
I usually used a Electro Voice RE20 but there are a lot of used large diaphragm dynamic cardioid mics out there to be had cheaply.
EDIT: Back when I ran sound a lot we used 4" thick upholstery foam to pad the bass drum. A piece about 20" wide and 1/2" longer than the distance between the front and back heads of the bass drum.
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Post by millring on Jan 12, 2018 7:17:21 GMT -5
That looks suspiciously like the autoharp enhancement unit. |
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Post by Marty on Jan 12, 2018 7:47:14 GMT -5
That looks suspiciously like the autoharp enhancement unit. I just got 2 autoharps. They both look like they have had some enhancement. |
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Post by Marshall on Jan 12, 2018 9:06:55 GMT -5
I read a review somewhere where a fancy studio guy preferred the Shure KSM32 for drums.
I can't find the link at the moment.
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Post by Marshall on Jan 12, 2018 9:08:01 GMT -5
Are your recording live? Or are you doing separate takes for each player/singer?
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Post by lar on Jan 12, 2018 10:28:52 GMT -5
Excellent idea but not very practical for recording. But I'll keep it in mind for when we've finished. It's a very flexible solution. I believe it would be a great asset in preparing a bassoon for the fireplace. |
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Post by Marty on Jan 12, 2018 11:19:55 GMT -5
Excellent idea but not very practical for recording. But I'll keep it in mind for when we've finished. It's a very flexible solution. I believe it would be a great asset in preparing a bassoon for the fireplace. They work just as well on banjos too.  |
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Post by lar on Jan 13, 2018 10:41:57 GMT -5
Are your recording live? Or are you doing separate takes for each player/singer? After some reflection I am leaning towards separate takes to eliminate bleed. It's also a practical decision. My digital recorder can record 8 tracks at a time. Janice needs 3 tracks for her concertina and MIDI setup. I'm planning on at least 3 tracks for the drums I'll also need a track for either guitar or tenor banjo depending on the song. And I'll need two vocal tracks. So I'll require a minimum of 9 tracks per song. I think what I'll do is have Janice record her concertina tracks first. I'll use the metronome feature on the recorder to assure that everyone is keeping time together. Then I'll add Janice's vocal track, my vocal, and my instrument. Later on we'll have our drummer come over to record his tracks. When everything is done I'll have nice clean tracks when I start mastering the recordings. |
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Post by mnhermit on Jan 13, 2018 12:12:11 GMT -5
Are your recording live? Or are you doing separate takes for each player/singer? After some reflection I am leaning towards separate takes to eliminate bleed. It's also a practical decision. My digital recorder can record 8 tracks at a time. Janice needs 3 tracks for her concertina and MIDI setup. I'm planning on at least 3 tracks for the drums I'll also need a track for either guitar or tenor banjo depending on the song. And I'll need two vocal tracks. So I'll require a minimum of 9 tracks per song. I think what I'll do is have Janice record her concertina tracks first. I'll use the metronome feature on the recorder to assure that everyone is keeping time together. Then I'll add Janice's vocal track, my vocal, and my instrument. Later on we'll have our drummer come over to record his tracks. When everything is done I'll have nice clean tracks when I start mastering the recordings. ...and thus starts a new career as recording engineer/producer/mixer/arranger. More power to ya!!! |
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Post by amanajoe on Jan 13, 2018 16:46:41 GMT -5
Lar,
I know it may sound odd, but I've never gotten a good kick drum sound from most standard mics, they just aren't designed to do it.
I don't know what a reasonable cost is to you, but the AKG D112 is the one I see most in studios for this use, the new MKII's are $199 without any coupons. I also like the Sennheiser E602 as a budget buy at about $40 dollars less than the AKG. Head to head (and based on the setup) you might actually like the 602 better than the 112. For the same money as the AKG, the Sennheiser E902 is highly regarded as being a great mic. It picks up the sound of the kick without the woosh or poof sound that some of the others get.
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Post by Marshall on Jan 13, 2018 17:30:26 GMT -5
Are your recording live? Or are you doing separate takes for each player/singer? After some reflection I am leaning towards separate takes to eliminate bleed. It's also a practical decision. My digital recorder can record 8 tracks at a time. Janice needs 3 tracks for her concertina and MIDI setup. I'm planning on at least 3 tracks for the drums I'll also need a track for either guitar or tenor banjo depending on the song. And I'll need two vocal tracks. So I'll require a minimum of 9 tracks per song. I think what I'll do is have Janice record her concertina tracks first. I'll use the metronome feature on the recorder to assure that everyone is keeping time together. Then I'll add Janice's vocal track, my vocal, and my instrument. Later on we'll have our drummer come over to record his tracks. When everything is done I'll have nice clean tracks when I start mastering the recordings. Yeah good. Using a metronome (click track) is the best way to multi-track. But the lead musician (Janice concertina?) needs to practise with a metronome before superimposing that on a recording. We all speed up and slow down in normal performance. Playing with a metronome highlights those issues and allows you to get comfortable with a chosen speed, before hitting "RECORD." You don't want to have to move notes around in the computer for timing issues. It can be done. But it's tricky thing and should be left for minor deviations. I've done acoustic guitar tracks first. Then lead vocals. Everything else spins off of those. Of course polka music would need the concertina up front. That's your lead instrument, unless you're doing a rhythm guitar track that is supposed to be the foundation. Just suggestions. You'll ferret it out. |
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Post by Marshall on Jan 15, 2018 0:42:44 GMT -5
Here's the response I got from Bill Kavanagh, who has BobDog Studios (in his basement).
It really depends on what kind of sound they're looking for and whether it's for studio or live use, but I use an EV ND868 on kick, a Shure SM57 on snare top, a Shure KSM141 on snare bottom & another one on the hat, Beyerdynamic Opus88s on rack toms, an AKG D112 on floor Tom and two Michael Joly-modded Rode NTKs as overheads.
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Post by Marty on Jan 15, 2018 11:02:39 GMT -5
Lar, I know it may sound odd, but I've never gotten a good kick drum sound from most standard mics, they just aren't designed to do it. I don't know what a reasonable cost is to you, but the AKG D112 is the one I see most in studios for this use, the new MKII's are $199 without any coupons. I also like the Sennheiser E602 as a budget buy at about $40 dollars less than the AKG. Head to head (and based on the setup) you might actually like the 602 better than the 112. For the same money as the AKG, the Sennheiser E902 is highly regarded as being a great mic. It picks up the sound of the kick without the woosh or poof sound that some of the others get. I second the AKG D112. That was our other choice for kick when we didn't have a EV RE20 available. |
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Post by lar on Jan 16, 2018 12:44:35 GMT -5
Thanks to all for your suggestions and information. I found all of it to be helpful and a good learning experience.
I finally decided on an Audix D6 mic. A friend of mine operates a recording studio in a nearby town. He's also a drummer and has been recording polka bands for years. Since polka is what I'm going to be recording I gave some weight to his thoughts on the matter. He says he's had very good luck with the D6. Now we'll see if he's right or not.
I'll also be interested to find out how the D6 works with my cajon. If I can get the sound I want I may become a cojonist on a recording or two in the future.
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Post by mnhermit on Jan 16, 2018 14:21:24 GMT -5
Thanks to all for your suggestions and information. I found all of it to be helpful and a good learning experience. I finally decided on an Audix D6 mic. A friend of mine operates a recording studio in a nearby town. He's also a drummer and has been recording polka bands for years. Since polka is what I'm going to be recording I gave some weight to his thoughts on the matter. He says he's had very good luck with the D6. Now we'll see if he's right or not. I'll also be interested to find out how the D6 works with my cajon. If I can get the sound I want I may become a cojonist on a recording or two in the future. not sure I'd be willing to record my cajones. More power too ya!  |
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