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Post by Russell Letson on Jun 20, 2018 19:39:51 GMT -5
Evan, the "get along with what passes for the left-ish coalition in the US, rein in the money-changers in the temple" part is pretty important, too. And what was wrong with Dukakis' demeanor, other than looking dorky in a helmet? As for Daddy Bush, he dragged along Dan Quayle, along with a bunch of Reaganites who represent the opposite of what I look for in policy matters. On the other hand, his kind of Republican has been hunted to extinction by the new GOP, which makes me a bit nostalgic for the old version of the Grand Old Party.
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Post by millring on Jun 22, 2018 5:35:19 GMT -5
If you are one who says that you believe in borders and reasonable immigration policy then it's just possible that your alliance with folks who don't believe in borders or enforcement of immigration policy is a counterproductive alliance. When you march with them you can't then expect to be taken seriously when you say that you want borders and reasonable immigration policy. Your alliances betray you.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jun 22, 2018 9:40:37 GMT -5
Moi?
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Post by Marshall on Jun 22, 2018 10:22:44 GMT -5
If you are one who says that you believe in borders and reasonable immigration policy then it's just possible that your alliance with folks who don't believe in borders or enforcement of immigration policy is a counterproductive alliance. When you march with them you can't then expect to be taken seriously when you say that you want borders and reasonable immigration policy. Your alliances betray you. My underwear betrays me.
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Post by timfarney on Jun 22, 2018 11:24:46 GMT -5
Trump came to the table in good faith? Trump came to this table with an executive order that created the problem, spent several days lying, claiming it was the fault of a nonexistant Democrat’s law, not his policy, that created the problem, then, when public opinion got negative enough, reversed his executive order with a second executive order, proving it was his doing and his to undo all along. So taking unilateral action while blaming your actions on those who had nothing to do with the situation is coming to the table in good faith? Your capacity for self-deception is stunning. Bullshit. Where were you 3 or 4 months ago? My statement above can be backed up without spin, without even opposition commentary, using only what has happened and has been said by Trump and his people. You’re going to need to be more specific about what is “bullshit,” and why, to be taken seriously.
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Post by timfarney on Jun 22, 2018 11:40:21 GMT -5
If you are one who says that you believe in borders and reasonable immigration policy then it's just possible that your alliance with folks who don't believe in borders or enforcement of immigration policy is a counterproductive alliance. When you march with them you can't then expect to be taken seriously when you say that you want borders and reasonable immigration policy. Your alliances betray you. I guess that depends on what you call reasonable immigration policy. Trump inherited a 46 year low in illegal immigration, screaming fear from the podium of the horrors and dangers of an illegal immigration crisis that did not exist. The GOP has fallen in step with his irrational, chicken little scare tactics. I don’t know if he even knows better, but many of the Republicans in Congress do, and they are still pushing his ridiculous, reactionary agenda. At this point, with them in the house the senate, and the White House, a reasonable immigration policy looks a lot like pushing back.
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Post by aquaduct on Jun 22, 2018 12:08:41 GMT -5
Bullshit. Where were you 3 or 4 months ago? My statement above can be backed up without spin, without even opposition commentary, using only what has happened and has been said by Trump and his people. You’re going to need to be more specific about what is “bullshit,” and why, to be taken seriously. I really don't give a rip if you (or any of the other leftists) take anything I say seriously. My history in DC working for the Obama administration answers all the questions I need answered. But if you must know, Trump was negotiating and end to the DACA debacle a few months ago and actually came up with a decent proposal. Something like 3 times as many Dreamers as originally requested with a solid path to citizenship. And the Dems blew it off rather than act like reasonable adults. Again, it's really not a contest. Actions have consequences. We'll see if Democrats have any stones to back up their big kerfuffle.
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Post by timfarney on Jun 22, 2018 12:40:23 GMT -5
My statement above can be backed up without spin, without even opposition commentary, using only what has happened and has been said by Trump and his people. You’re going to need to be more specific about what is “bullshit,” and why, to be taken seriously. I really don't give a rip if you (or any of the other leftists) take anything I say seriously. My history in DC working for the Obama administration answers all the questions I need answered. But if you must know, Trump was negotiating and end to the DACA debacle a few months ago and actually came up with a decent proposal. Something like 3 times as many Dreamers as originally requested with a solid path to citizenship. And the Dems blew it off rather than act like reasonable adults. Again, it's really not a contest. Actions have consequences. We'll see if Democrats have any stones to back up their big kerfuffle. Yeah, I remember. He wasn’t negotiating an end to the DACA debacle, he was using dreamers to get his stupid wall. He probably knew they wouldn’t go for it and floated it just so he could try to blame the DACA situation he created on the opposition. I didn’t figure you cared if I took you seriously, but you dismissed reality with a “bullshit” and completely failed to back yourself up with any data. Do you care to take yourself seriously?
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Post by aquaduct on Jun 22, 2018 12:59:45 GMT -5
I really don't give a rip if you (or any of the other leftists) take anything I say seriously. My history in DC working for the Obama administration answers all the questions I need answered. But if you must know, Trump was negotiating and end to the DACA debacle a few months ago and actually came up with a decent proposal. Something like 3 times as many Dreamers as originally requested with a solid path to citizenship. And the Dems blew it off rather than act like reasonable adults. Again, it's really not a contest. Actions have consequences. We'll see if Democrats have any stones to back up their big kerfuffle. Yeah, I remember. He wasn’t negotiating an end to the DACA debacle, he was using dreamers to get his stupid wall. He probably knew they wouldn’t go for it and floated it just so he could try to blame the DACA situation he created on the opposition. I didn’t figure you cared if I took you seriously, but you dismissed reality with a “bullshit” and completely failed to back yourself up with any data. Do you care to take yourself seriously? I do take myself seriously. It's you I don't.
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Post by james on Jun 22, 2018 13:19:12 GMT -5
"Democrats are the problem. They don’t care about crime and want illegal immigrants, no matter how bad they may be, to pour into and infest our Country" Your crypto-fascist twat-waffle president addressing his supporters. And....? "Infest"Really? He's a venal, bigoted, chauvinist sociopath and he doesn't hide it.
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Post by aquaduct on Jun 22, 2018 13:21:54 GMT -5
"Infest"Really? He's a venal, bigoted, chauvinist sociopath and he doesn't hide it. If you say so. Guess it's a good thing you don't live here and have no say in the matter.
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Post by jdd2 on Jun 22, 2018 13:33:56 GMT -5
But neither do the russians, and they seem to have had a lot of impact.
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Post by aquaduct on Jun 22, 2018 13:35:14 GMT -5
But neither do the russians, and they seem to have had a lot of impact. Which would be a fascinating insight, if there were actually any proof of it.
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Post by jdd2 on Jun 22, 2018 13:42:44 GMT -5
The chinese have undoubtedly been thanking their lucky stars for several years now.
(never having let facebook in)
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Post by aquaduct on Jun 22, 2018 13:54:41 GMT -5
The chinese have undoubtedly been thanking their lucky stars for several years now. (never having let facebook in) Oh, I'm sure they'll come to rue the day they missed all those cat pictures.
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Post by brucemacneill on Jun 22, 2018 15:16:26 GMT -5
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Post by timfarney on Jun 22, 2018 15:29:56 GMT -5
But neither do the russians, and they seem to have had a lot of impact. Which would be a fascinating insight, if there were actually any proof of it. Ah...now you’re looking for proof. And here I didn’t think you even wanted to be bothered with evidence.
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Post by timfarney on Jun 22, 2018 15:31:58 GMT -5
Washington Post. Liberal fake news.
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Post by aquaduct on Jun 22, 2018 15:35:04 GMT -5
Which would be a fascinating insight, if there were actually any proof of it. Ah...now you’re looking for proof. And here I didn’t think you even wanted to be bothered with evidence. I'm not looking for proof. I don't care. Not that you have any.
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Post by millring on Jun 23, 2018 6:51:15 GMT -5
I think your instinct is right on target. The world has a serious over-population problem. A dramatic example is the phenomenon of periodic famines in the Horn of Africa. The land is simply too fragile to support the current population. Famines kick in like clockwork. The world reacts by sending in emergency relief, which of course it should, but does little to nothing to address the underlying problem, and the cycle continues. So why don't they just stop having babies? The UN's answer is the correct one, I believe. These are patriarchal, largely agricultural societies that are still living in the past, when it was important to have large families. The patriarch was essentially creating his own labor force to feed himself and his spouse, especially as they approached old age. To put it bluntly, the guys kept "their" women barefoot and pregnant for most or all of their reproductive lives. The women went along with it because it has worked for people around the world for thousands of years. And also because, in patriarchal societies, by definition, they had no other choice. We're now at a historic watershed in human development, when families don't need to be large to survive. In this age of modern agriculture, we don't need the large work forces needed in the past to create food. Also at play: among the many benefits of modern medicine is a higher survival rate for infants, plus longer life spans, which together create more mouths to feed for longer periods of time. In short, a lot of people around the world haven't gotten the memo. The UN's prescription for bringing these cultures around to the realization that they don't need to have a constant stream of babies to survive is to educate, and thereby empower, the women: to let them know that there now can be more to life than spending most of it populating the earth. It's okay, now, for them to have a kid or two, and then go have a career. Naturally, the guys in these cultures aren't happy about this. They see these modern ideas as antithetical to what, for them, is a pretty good life, maybe even one ordained by God. Which puts a dangerous spin on the situation. One need look no further to see why so many traditional cultures, and I specifically include those in the Mideast, are hostile to the point of violence against Western ideas about women and their role in society. But until enough women are educated enough, and brave enough, to just say no, the problem of high fertility rates in developing countries will continue, and, with it, a lot of the social upheaval and violence that we see today. So we're trapped between that totally patronizing position in which we interfere as a superior culture who know better, and the option of leaving them alone to the life they know and love -- complete with a very young average age of death that is self-solving but that they are comfortable with.
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