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Post by patrick on Jan 24, 2019 13:32:10 GMT -5
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Post by Cornflake on Jan 24, 2019 13:44:10 GMT -5
With endangered woods you need a bridge made of bald eagle bone.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 24, 2019 13:50:58 GMT -5
Don't forget inlays made of unicorn horn.
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Post by billhammond on Jan 24, 2019 13:52:39 GMT -5
With endangered woods you need a bridge made of bald eagle bone. I prefer California Condor. |
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Post by TKennedy on Jan 24, 2019 14:12:21 GMT -5
It is more important to have an endangered luthier. Just living in MN in the winter qualifies.
On a more serious note I bet if in a blindfolded test you had a Brazilian Rosewood Olson with a bad setup and an Indian Rosewood Yamaha setup perfectly for the player's style they would pick the Yamaha 90% of the time.
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Post by Cornflake on Jan 24, 2019 14:31:12 GMT -5
I won't take the bet.
On a related point, there's no accounting for taste. I was never excited by the sound of rosewood guitars. When I was finally spending some money on a guitar, I got a Martin D-18. I loved the sound. My budget would have allowed me to get a more expensive guitar but I liked the sound of the D-18 better than any of the more expensive guitars I tried. It sang to me. The others didn't.
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Post by Russell Letson on Jan 24, 2019 15:22:28 GMT -5
The wood does appear to make a difference, but there are lots of kinds of wood to choose from, and the builders I've talked to have been as concerned with how to manage the materials as with the materials themselves. Michael Dunn, who is as much a sculptor as a luthier, uses all manner of unexpected woods--my Daphne has purpleheart back and sides and a cedar top. The guitar Michael was playing out on when I met him had African blackwood b&s. His current personal guitar has, I believe, ebony b&s. And his instruments all sound like his instruments.
Back in the 1990s, Steve Cloutier built three as-close-to-identical-as-possible guitars from Indian rosewood, mahogany, and curly walnut. I tried all three and chose the rosewood, though the walnut was pretty close (and I had a chance to spend several weeks with it while Steve installed a pickup in mine). I now have a mahogany Cloutier as well, with the same scale length and top build formula (redwood, hybrid bracing) but a different bridge design and a slightly different body size and shape, and I can hear the difference between the two guitars' voices in the low-register attack especially. But they're clearly related.
I suspect that the reliance on woods now considered endangered has more to do with history--availability at a given time and an established body of understanding of their qualities--than with any semi-mystical musical properties. Though marimba makers are apparently wondering what will replace Brazilian rosewood for their keys.
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Post by PaulKay on Jan 24, 2019 15:54:04 GMT -5
So Ovations were just as good.
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 24, 2019 16:03:56 GMT -5
So Ovations were just as good. They worked fine for Melissa Etheridge. |
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Post by RickW on Jan 24, 2019 16:23:37 GMT -5
So Ovations were just as good. They worked fine for Melissa Etheridge. For a lot of folks. Glen Campbell and Cat Stevens as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 1:45:05 GMT -5
So Ovations were just as good. They worked fine for Melissa Etheridge. Many of the early Ovation players chose the guitar because of the electronics. A generation or two ago, Ovations (and, soon after, Takamines) seemed to be the only game in town if you wanted to amplify an acoustic guitar. Fortunately, that has changed. I once had an editor who owned an Ovation. I wanted to tell him that one of my mantras was, "Friends don't let friends buy Ovations," but I never did. To me, one of the joys of owning a guitar made out of real wood (and I, too, am a mahogany guy) is hearing a great guitar get even better over time. If you pulled out the late Glen Campbell's original Ovation Balladeer today, it probably sounds the same way it did when it was new. I could be wrong, though. |
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Post by timfarney on Jan 26, 2019 8:37:02 GMT -5
Rip the top off an Ovation and it’s good for tossing a salad.
I think the top is the wood that matters, really. And even there a specific piece of Sitka can be as stiff as Adirondack, so it depends. Does a change from rosewood to maple change the tone? Sure. But compared to the top bracing, scale length, bridge placement, etc, I think it’s counting the angels on the head of a pin. I thought I didn’t like maple for years, based on the experience of a maple guitar I grew tired of, imagined I heard it’s characteristics in every maple guitar I played. Now I own an old maple LG2 that I love. I haven’t played 5 guitars in my lifetime that are its equal. But I could be talking myself into that, too. We humans have an amazing capacity for self deception.
Now the really amusing conversations are the internet discussions just like this - the qualities of various tone woods, and their dramatic impact...on solid body electric guitars.
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Post by coachdoc on Jan 26, 2019 8:46:17 GMT -5
I too do not like maple backed guitars. Too strident. Nor am I a big fan of Taylor guitars. But one of the prettiest sounding guitars I have played was a maple backed Taylor with cedar top. Gorgeous. I told myself it was the cedar taming the maple, and that may be so, but really it was just a really well made guitar.
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Post by Marty on Jan 26, 2019 9:32:41 GMT -5
I too do not like maple backed guitars. Too strident. Nor am I a big fan of Taylor guitars. But one of the prettiest sounding guitars I have played was a maple backed Taylor with cedar top. Gorgeous. I told myself it was the cedar taming the maple, and that may be so, but really it was just a really well made guitar. It's the type of maple most makers use, hard fiddleback maple. Terry does a big leaf birdseye maple that would knock your socks off. Yes a cedar top tames hard maple very nicely. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 10:29:30 GMT -5
I too do not like maple backed guitars. Too strident. Nor am I a big fan of Taylor guitars. But one of the prettiest sounding guitars I have played was a maple backed Taylor with cedar top. Gorgeous. I told myself it was the cedar taming the maple, and that may be so, but really it was just a really well made guitar. It's the type of maple most makers use, hard fiddleback maple. Terry does a big leaf birdseye maple that would knock your socks off. Yes a cedar top tames hard maple very nicely.
In 2009, I purchased a pre-owned Dell Arte Frank Hicks jazz model, built by John S. Kinnard, in 2000. John is an under the radar and underrated luthier from San Diego. The guitar's arched top is sitka, and not carved, and the back and sides are a beautiful flamed maple. It is dreadnought depth, sounds robust acoustically and has a lot going on in the basement when it's plugged into an amp.
Most importantly, it is not strident in the least. Though I am not a jazz player, this guitar does wonders for western swing and certain kinds of country, as well as some types of blues.
Here are photos from when it first arrived, about ten years ago. I am a different man now.
Here is a visually horrible video from a few years ago, when my dear pal John and I backed our friend, Deb, at a cabaret show she did in a basement in the East Village. Even though it is impossible to see anything (too bad; I was wearing a killer western shirt), that is me on the right, playing rhythm on the Frank. Strident? I think not.
OK, here ya go...
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Post by lar on Jan 26, 2019 10:41:09 GMT -5
They worked fine for Melissa Etheridge. Many of the early Ovation players chose the guitar because of the electronics. A generation or two ago, Ovations (and, soon after, Takamines) seemed to be the only game in town if you wanted to amplify an acoustic guitar. Fortunately, that has changed. I once had an editor who owned an Ovation. I wanted to tell him that one of my mantras was, "Friends don't let friends buy Ovations," but I never did. To me, one of the joys of owning a guitar made out of real wood (and I, too, am a mahogany guy) is hearing a great guitar get even better over time. If you pulled out the late Glen Campbell's original Ovation Balladeer today, it probably sounds the same way it did when it was new. I could be wrong, though. In the mid 90s I played an acoustic/electric Ovation that sounded great. I didn't buy it because the convex back and my convex front were not a good match. I ended up buying a '96 Takamine Limited Edition because it sounded so good plugged in. It still sounds great plugged in. |
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Post by lar on Jan 26, 2019 10:42:01 GMT -5
Great shirt, Howard!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 13:11:06 GMT -5
Many of the early Ovation players chose the guitar because of the electronics. A generation or two ago, Ovations (and, soon after, Takamines) seemed to be the only game in town if you wanted to amplify an acoustic guitar. Fortunately, that has changed. I once had an editor who owned an Ovation. I wanted to tell him that one of my mantras was, "Friends don't let friends buy Ovations," but I never did. To me, one of the joys of owning a guitar made out of real wood (and I, too, am a mahogany guy) is hearing a great guitar get even better over time. If you pulled out the late Glen Campbell's original Ovation Balladeer today, it probably sounds the same way it did when it was new. I could be wrong, though. In the mid 90s I played an acoustic/electric Ovation that sounded great. I didn't buy it because the convex back and my convex front were not a good match. I ended up buying a '96 Takamine Limited Edition because it sounded so good plugged in. It still sounds great plugged in. I had ergonomic issues with Ovations, too. They always slid off my lap. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 13:45:17 GMT -5
Just trying to keep up with you, Hoss! Thanks.
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Post by drlj on Jan 26, 2019 14:20:10 GMT -5
I threaten my guitars all the time. Being endangered doesn’t seem to scare them.
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