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Post by fauxmaha on Dec 4, 2019 12:50:16 GMT -5
Interesting breakdown:
Western: There are no systems of order/justice. The lone outsider comes in and imposes them through his will.
Eastern: There are systems of order/justice, but they are corrupt and must be redeemed by an insider.
Southern: There are systems of order/justice, but they are corrupt and must be redeemed by an outsider.
Northern: There are perfectly functioning systems of order/justice, and they produce the optimal result every time.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 4, 2019 13:31:21 GMT -5
Cool
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Post by Russell Letson on Dec 4, 2019 14:16:02 GMT -5
At first glance (and without knowing what movies his model is drawn from or how his categories are formed), it looks like a vast oversimplification. And I'm not willing to sit through two and a half hours of chat to find out. This is why I prefer print to video/podcasts--I can look at an essay and quickly determine what the writer is saying, on what basis, and whether it's likely to make sense.
I've been doing taxonomic analysis of art for a long time now, and the crucial lesson is that no single taxonomy is complete or adequate.
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Post by millring on Dec 4, 2019 14:51:13 GMT -5
Gladwell makes fantastic observations and then can't wait to prove himself wrong. His books are utterly entertaining, based on cool facts, but unless you're conscious of it, it's easy to not notice that his conclusions are rarely anything more than opinions. The books SEEM so sciency that you could easily miss that they are ultimately fiction.
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Post by Cornflake on Dec 4, 2019 15:10:38 GMT -5
I haven't watched this but I'll mention that I used to be a fan of Gladwell's. That changed when I wound up reading about the "10,000 hour" rule in some detail and learned that Gladwell had oversimplified and distorted the research which gave rise to the idea. He'd also cherry-picked evidence to suit his thesis. Once you've caught someone doing this it's hard to see them as very credible.
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Post by RickW on Dec 5, 2019 1:06:54 GMT -5
. Eastern: There are systems of order/justice, but they are corrupt and must be redeemed by an insider. However, it doesn’t matter, as everyone dies quite tragically. Had to update that one. He missed part of it. |
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Post by Marshall on Dec 5, 2019 8:47:58 GMT -5
Interesting breakdown: Western: There are no systems of order/justice. The lone outsider comes in and imposes them through his will. - Jack ReacherEastern: There are systems of order/justice, but they are corrupt and must be redeemed by an insider. - SerpicoSouthern: There are systems of order/justice, but they are corrupt and must be redeemed by an outsider. - Every John Grisham novel
Northern: There are perfectly functioning systems of order/justice, and they produce the optimal result every time. - Law & Order, Sherlock Holmes That's good. |
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Post by millring on Dec 5, 2019 8:58:05 GMT -5
Major Crimes -- the system is corrupt but people within the system figure out a work-around, by further corrupting the system. Utilitarianism.
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Post by Marshall on Dec 5, 2019 10:04:36 GMT -5
I found Gladwell's discussion about Law & Order interesting. (A Northern crime drama). He says it's women that watch it. What I found interesting is my wife usually goes to bed before me. And she falls asleep watching old Law & Order reruns almost every night I'm not in bed.
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Post by fauxmaha on Dec 5, 2019 10:11:28 GMT -5
I found Gladwell's discussion about Law & Order interesting... I can't see the title "Law & Order" and not have "Bum bum bum bum bum" run through my head. |
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Post by howard lee on Dec 6, 2019 7:30:00 GMT -5
Gladwell makes fantastic observations and then can't wait to prove himself wrong. His books are utterly entertaining, based on cool facts, but unless you're conscious of it, it's easy to not notice that his conclusions are rarely anything more than opinions. The books SEEM so sciency that you could easily miss that they are ultimately fiction.
As I read this post, the first thing that came to mind was: "Hm. In a fashion, he could be describing Fox News."
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Post by Marshall on Dec 6, 2019 11:53:09 GMT -5
Balanced and fair.
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Post by fauxmaha on Dec 6, 2019 11:58:57 GMT -5
As I read this post, the first thing that came to mind was: "Hm. In a fashion, he could be describing Fox News."
You watch Fox News? How embarrassing. |
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Post by millring on Dec 6, 2019 12:09:36 GMT -5
'Cause I'm the taxonomic man
Yeah, I'm the taxonomic man
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Post by howard lee on Dec 6, 2019 17:31:31 GMT -5
As I read this post, the first thing that came to mind was: "Hm. In a fashion, he could be describing Fox News."
You watch Fox News? How embarrassing.
"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer." —Michael Corleone
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Post by jdd2 on Dec 6, 2019 19:54:11 GMT -5
For some ‘real’ movie info…  Back thru the mid 90s and into the 2000s I had a strong interest in film and cinema. I taught two seminars and then usually had some thesis students. Second year was on Disney movies, which I thought was innocuous enough to leverage as an opening to film (bait). Third year (& switch) used the following PBS video series (VHS at the time), along with a few actual films. This is the series, now on youtube: American Cinema / American CultureThis series was put out to mark the 100th anniversary of film (1895-1995). Each title is about 55min., intro to each by John Lithgow, narrated by variety of people. Lots of famous people from Hollywood. Also a huge number of clips from movies added to illustrate what people being interviewed were talking about. All wonderfully edited together. In some ways, the series is a little dated, but in others it stands up really well. There is a companion text of the same name by John Belton, which at least has been updated since the series came out. (also a shorter study guide, which I don’t think has changed) I used those (the text and study guide, and many other books I had collected) to prep for lectures and explanation/background of what was presented in the video series. For something extra, look for books by Bordwell—anything he does is quality reading. So here’s the extra tidbit if you are interested—scripts for some of these videos: The Hollywood StyleThe Studio SystemThe StarFilm in the TV AgeThe Film School GenerationI first captured these scripts via a closed caption decoder that allowed that output to be saved (actually direct into a computer and then saved as it was in progress). When I think back on those, they were really rough! I worked through those CC files, trying to improve them as much as possible, and then when using them in successive classes/years, would note down and make as many corrections as I could. At one point, I knew these five parts (and lots of background) backwards and forwards. For the remaining parts I do have drafts, but they never got polished and error-corrected to the degree that these "main" ones did. "The Western" was pretty good, and I think I worked on it more than some others. "The Edge of Hollywood" is now the most dated of the series—since what at that time was film’s leading edge was obviously not going to last long. “Film Noir” was just too hard, the “Combat Film” didn’t ring bells culturally, “Comedy” was too fast/difficult. There are still a few flaws in these scripts, but bear with that and the choices I made when making them. Also, how I've chosen to script the excerpts is idiosyncratic—one factor was length: fewer pages meant less copying and paper handling. And tho the overall billing is 100 years of cinema, it pretty much ignores anything before the 1930s. If you’re interested in the origins--the Lumieres, Melies, Edison, or the whole silent era, this series doesn’t show any of that. |
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Post by Marshall on Dec 6, 2019 23:31:06 GMT -5
I'll have to bookmark this post for another time when I have some time to read it.
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