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Post by epaul on Jan 3, 2020 21:52:20 GMT -5
I would get us out of the Middle East.
But, the only way to do so is to take Israel with us.
Which is what I would do. We've got plenty of room and it would be an immeasurable boon for this country. Israel is wasted on and unwanted in the Middle East.
But, alas ...
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Post by epaul on Jan 3, 2020 21:59:37 GMT -5
"Oh, but Paul, you said you would take Israel out of the Middle East and bring it home to America. But, what about our good friends, the Saudi Royals? Did you forgot about them?"
"No. I didn't."
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Post by Cornflake on Jan 3, 2020 22:07:53 GMT -5
I've heard several variations today on the argument that Suleimani needed killing. Certainly he was no friend of the US. I haven't heard anyone express sorrow over his demise. But if that's enough reason, why don't we send drones after Putin? Kim il Jong? Putin screwed with our elections, after all, which is a lot worse than anything Suleimani is reported to have done. The world would be better off without Putin. It seems to me that no one thinks assassinating Putin would be a good idea but a lot of people think that assassinating Suleimani was a bang-up idea. Why do we see these things differently? Is it because we can probably get away with beating up on a small-time power but we might actually get hurt doing the same thing to someone more nearly our size? Is that a moral foreign policy?
Tired of hitting the question mark key. I'm still waiting to see whether the facts justified this act because of imminent potential harm to Americans, but the "he needed killing" rationale doesn't fly IMO.
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Post by epaul on Jan 3, 2020 22:13:19 GMT -5
How many Americans has Putin killed?
How many Americans have lost lives and limbs due to Suleimani's plans and orders?
[answer key: Putin has killed no Americans. Suleimani was the architect of much of the blood carnage suffered in post-Saddam Iraq, not just American lives and limbs, but the internecine carnage suffered by the Iraqis.]
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Post by Chesapeake on Jan 3, 2020 22:20:31 GMT -5
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Post by aquaduct on Jan 3, 2020 22:20:37 GMT -5
"Well the complete lack of any consequences for the people who actually make those decisions is pretty much why we're here to begin with. Your opinion or mine be damned." So let's change that by how we vote. Great. I'm voting for Trump. You too? |
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Post by epaul on Jan 3, 2020 22:27:13 GMT -5
Ok, I never heard of this guy before today. But Iran was, and is, behind so much of bloodshed in Iraq, something should have been done or undone or something...
(besides, it's only fair that once in a very great while, a general meets with the same fate he daily consigns the grunts to)
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Post by sidheguitarmichael on Jan 3, 2020 22:51:35 GMT -5
IPutin screwed with our elections, after all, which is a lot worse than anything Suleimani is reported to have done. No, no it is not. But Iran was, and is, behind so much of bloodshed in Iraq, something should have been done or undone or something... I’ve read that 1 in 6 American deaths in Iraq have been directly due to Iranian action. This guy has been raising covert hell in the ME for over a decade. Certainly Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi A, probably Egypt... all those countries are very glad to see him gone. The fact that he was blown up, along with another guy—in a country that we are ostensibly "allies" with, in a place where we also operate—shows a decision to do so in extremely public fashion. There could certainly have been quieter ways to do him in. Incidentally, there are mop up ops still going on—this is not a one-pronged, knee-jerk action. JSOC personnel have already rolled up several other key leaders—alive—in the aftermath. The people who get paid to do this stuff are fucking up Iran’s capability to project force, while concomitantly scaring mint-flavored tic-tacs out of Iraqis formerly disinclined to toe the line. Every leader who’s ever voiced an anti-American sentiment over a cell phone is now going to be swallowing hard any time they plan to travel. Again, this is a separate issue from whether or not we actually *should* have the largest embassy compound on the planet in Iraq, but we do, so that’s that. |
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Post by Marshall on Jan 3, 2020 22:53:39 GMT -5
I suspect we meddle in Russian politics already. Not in the same deviuos ways as the ruskies last time around. But our political hands aren’t clean.
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Post by jdd2 on Jan 3, 2020 23:17:24 GMT -5
Dealing with one's own extraterritoriality can sometimes be such a pain.
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Post by epaul on Jan 3, 2020 23:38:35 GMT -5
I suspect we meddle in Russian politics already. Not in the same deviuos ways as the ruskies last time around. But our political hands aren’t clean. There was an election in 1953 in Iran I wish we had never meddled with. But, the Brits talked (begged) us into it and we did. Thank you, Britain. |
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Post by sidheguitarmichael on Jan 4, 2020 0:28:09 GMT -5
Just like the US, just like here at the soundhole, just like many family thanksgiving dinners, opinions can and will vary. Anyone interested can scan through this twitter feed and see what some younger, tech-savvy Iranians have to say about this. Remember that Iran’s leadership—of which General McShrapnel was a face—is a perennial sufferer of very low approval rates in the major urban areas. Maybe I should have added Iran to the list of countries who wanted this guy dead. mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/TnxPOTUS4Soleimani?src=hashAt any rate, the train has definitely left the station. “Airstrike kills 5 members of Iran-backed militia, Iraq official says” www.foxnews.com/world/iraq-airstrike-iran-backed-militia-official“An airstrike Friday hit two cars carrying members of an Iran-backed militia north of Iraq's capital, Baghdad, killing five members, an Iraqi official told The Associated Press.”Another data point from Petraeus: foreignpolicy.com/2020/01/03/petraeus-on-qassem-suleimani-killing-says-trump-helped-reestablish-deterrence/?fbclid=IwAR2IWF6sx-4FKJ7XYA8dINJ6LWJ19JDnBQDjJcQ_nwxhJ_F84j09Qlt_uUYLastly, a question that I throw out, fully acknowledging that I don’t know the answer: what are the odds that the Iraqis asked for help getting Suleimani? Bombing our own airport of operations in an alliance country is a hell of a thing, and we’ve had years to get permission, should the opportunity arise. Just musing aloud. The dude was definitely stirring rebellion across the border in a country that wasn't his. That much *everyone* can agree upon. He was responsible for a pile of Iraqi deaths, all in all. |
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Post by jdd2 on Jan 4, 2020 1:32:51 GMT -5
... a perennial sufferer of very low approval rates in the major urban areas.... Seems like that applies to someone in the US, too?  |
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Post by sidheguitarmichael on Jan 4, 2020 1:41:19 GMT -5
... a perennial sufferer of very low approval rates in the major urban areas.... Seems like that applies to someone in the US, too? This is very true. |
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Post by millring on Jan 4, 2020 6:25:25 GMT -5
Wonder what history will say. History will be determined by whomever ultimately wins this one. I'm guessing that since the story tellers are 90% of one party, that's the story that will live on, despite who prevails in the short term. But the hope of the truth is that the 10% has a better means of conveyance than ever before in history. Their story won't completely die in the same manner as the previous losers in history. |
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Post by jdd2 on Jan 4, 2020 7:40:32 GMT -5
Yeah, maybe this guy will be remembered as the archduke ferdinand of the 21st century?
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Post by fauxmaha on Jan 4, 2020 8:27:45 GMT -5
Wonder what history will say. History will be determined by whomever ultimately wins this one. I'm guessing that since the story tellers are 90% of one party, that's the story that will live on, despite who prevails in the short term. But the hope of the truth is that the 10% has a better means of conveyance than ever before in history. Their story won't completely die in the same manner as the previous losers in history. The 90%'s story has gone from "Trump's Benghazi" to "Trump just started WWIII" in three days. I refer you to my previous comment about putting the cable news GIN spinners on a 90 day delay. |
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Post by jdd2 on Jan 4, 2020 9:06:20 GMT -5
^^^So, doc, which is it?  Something could happen, or it won't. Or somewhere in between. Spin and GIN, and story-telling will have to wait in order to work with what actually does happen. |
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Post by casualplayerpaul on Jan 4, 2020 10:45:59 GMT -5
In a world that changes by the minute, it’s good to know that you can reliably predict Trump golfing as he sends more troops into harm’s way.
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Post by majorminor on Jan 4, 2020 11:01:40 GMT -5
Is it too soon to mention that Trump is even creating new jobs in Iran?
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