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Post by david on Oct 24, 2020 22:36:19 GMT -5
I will never understand how Trump has cast his spell on so many people: While a judge or emcee in a Miss America pageant who tells his buddies to just "grab them (the contestants) by the pussy."
Is this the guy you want running your country?
Using his position of power and influence to sexually abuse women? Paying off his prostitutes?
Refusing to disclose tax returns. Never attended any church service prior to running for President. Bankrupting three businesses.
People here think we should not consider his opposition on Christian or moral grounds? What a joke!
Throw out another red herring Trump to try to avoid people looking at your black heart. Trump is a sick, twisted man.
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Post by sidheguitarmichael on Oct 24, 2020 23:37:18 GMT -5
Trump has major issues, of that there is no doubt. That said, there’s also no shortage of women accusing Biden of misconduct—up to and including sexual assault. Despite a complete and total lack of objectivity on the part of media over the last week—on all sides—one thing remains clear: If a politician’s colossal fuckup of a son is getting a ridiculous salary in an industry they have no experience or background in, they're getting it because they provide access to that politician. That’s corruption, regardless of how well or how poorly they cover the tracks.
But back to Trump, since the thread has shifted to a discussion of the strange spell he has on otherwise sane people for a sec. I didn’t vote for him the first time, and I think the guy is almost a cartoon character of a pompous, blowhard billionaire. But I’ve come to believe that he was, and is, sincere about loving his country, and his family (and probably strippers, too) and I’m personally fine with all that. As well, he—and Kushner—was the only guy who could bring the UAE, Bahrain, and now Sudan into normalizing relations with Israel. I sincerely do not believe that a Biden admin could have done that and, moreover, we may lose that progress if Biden gets elected. I feel this way for a variety of reasons having to do with past and present usage of American assets (specifically special forces—an interesting story beyond the scope of this post) and past and present handling of Iran—recall the long thread where probably the most prescient post, including any of mine, was the post on “talking to your dog about Iran.”
Point being, the recent peace overtures could have only happened under a guy like Trump. The same minds that gave us Libya and the “Arab spring” don’t have the mindset that created the UAE opening, IMHO. So there’s that.
As well—and I realize that good people will have deeply divided opinions on this—I like what Trump has done with the courts. The 9th circuit has earned the “circus” nickname (and I know one of the judges personally) over the years, and we just saw a 2A panel ruling out of California in the 9th that is due directly to a Trump appointee adjusting the balance. I say “adjusting,” because I realize that people on the far left may well see things differently, but I can go into great depth on why I believe that Trump’s appointments enhance impartiality, as opposed to detracting. I feel the same about ACB for SCOTUS.
I’m pointing out some reasons specifically *for* Trump, should one value the same sorts of things I do, as opposed to just holding my nose and going Trump just because he’s not Biden—although I absolutely get that sentiment, as I was sorely tempted last time just because he wasn’t Clinton2.
Now on Biden and belief, I’m not personally ate up over that, because I do feel that true pros can perform their jobs around deeply held beliefs—see ACB again. But since it came up, a quick search of Fr. Ed Meeks will reveal how some in Biden’s own faith base view his candidacy.
Point being, both these guys sort of suck, and both have consistently lived in a manner that reeks of entitlement and economic predation, at the least—to a level that nobody on this board would be similarly comfortable doing. So it becomes an issue of voting policy over personality, and I prefer the outcomes I see under a Trump admin, over the policies of a Biden admin.
If one is inclined to vote Biden solely because “anyone but Trump,” and it’s an issue with what Trump’s policies have produced, cool. That’s honest, and I get the sentiment, as mentioned, due to the last election.
But I would ask, if one doesn’t mind going further: what has Biden done in the last 47 years to make the country objectively better and, failing that, the world objectively safer? I really am asking.
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Post by Russell Letson on Oct 25, 2020 0:23:31 GMT -5
Michael, it's too late to say much beyond a quick suggestion to not take Fr. Meeks' sermon as representative of all that many Catholics--though there are certainly authoritarian, totalizing paleo-Catholics at large. Take the word of a Jesuit-trained apostate cradle Catholic who grew up on this kind of authoritarian, absolutist bullshit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2020 5:13:56 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks the "treaties" UAE, Bahrain and Sudan made with Israel were done out of some wish for regional stability is either naive or lacks an awareness of Middle Eastern politics.
The UAE made the deal because it wants to buy U.S. F-35 stealth fighters, and Israel (which already has F-35s) objected to it. So UAE made nice with Netanyahu and, just like that, Israel dropped its objection to the purchase, with one major caveat: the F-35s the UAE buys must be altered so they aren't stealthy. That is because U.S. policy decrees Israel must have military superiority in the region. If the jets can't be appropriately modified (keep in mind stealth was built into the very design) then the U.S. has agreed to upgrade Israel's radar systems so they will be able to detect the jets. In short, we're sellling the UAE stealth fighters that aren't stealthy AND we will probably wind up giving Israel a new radar system.
Bahrain's king made nice with Netanyahu because, like Israel, he doesn't like Iran, and he wants continued protection against popular uprisings. Bahrainis themselves are against normalizing relations with Israel. And make no mistake -- Bahrain is a repressive regime. Opposition parties are outlawed. "Insulting" a friendly foreign government is an actual crime. (This was similar in Kuwait, where it was against the law to criticize KSA. Bloggers have been jailed in Kuwait for doing that. Newspapers have been shut down for criticizing KSA.) Bahrain's rulers just want protection from their own people, and this was one way to help do that.
Sudan sought to normalize relations with Israel because it wants the U.S. to remove it from the list of state sponsors of terrorism. Being on that list limits a country's ability to get foreign aid and attract investment, two things Sudan really needs. So they normalize relations with Israel and U.S. aid and investment returns to Sudan.
Thinking that Trump, Kushner, Pompeo et al were the "only" people who could engineer these "treaties" is delusional. They want U.S. fighters, protection and foreign aid, and this was the means to those ends. And, like most things the U.S. undertakes in the Middle East, it will come back to haunt us in some form or fashion. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow. But at some point there'll be hell to pay after Trump and Netanyahu are long gone.
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Post by theevan on Oct 25, 2020 5:31:03 GMT -5
Nothing comes to mind, but the same could be said of Trump..
Like you I didn't vote Trump last time. And he's still the cringy blowhard he was 4 years ago. But he gets my vote this time based on what he has done as president, not on what he says he will do.
Talk is cheap.
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Post by theevan on Oct 25, 2020 5:32:31 GMT -5
But they're the only ones who did. Fact.
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Post by Marshall on Oct 25, 2020 9:07:41 GMT -5
Well, that was nicely reasoned out, Michael. I definitely don't agree. But that's OK. I'll never be a 2A champion or NRA supporter. Much much more bad than good comes out of assault weapon ownership, and sleasy easy gun show purchases. Guns/weapons have been regularly regulated in this country for at least the last hundred years. I'm not against the 2A. It's the law. But I am against the loosey goosey (Lucy?) application of ownership rights.
But that being said, I wouldn't waste much breath on the issue.
But the whole Hunter Biden thing, and the Biden sexual thing you raise, to me are just attempts by the Trump circle to deflect attention from his own personal egregious behaviors. Trump trumps all.
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 25, 2020 9:18:26 GMT -5
Well, that was nicely reasoned out, Michael. I definitely don't agree. But that's OK. I'll never be a 2A champion or NRA supporter. Much much more bad than good comes out of assault weapon ownership, and sleasy easy gun show purchases. Guns/weapons have been regularly regulated in this country for at least the last hundred years. I'm not against the 2A. It's the law. But I am against the loosey goosey (Lucy?) application of ownership rights. But that being said, I wouldn't waste much breath on the issue. But the whole Hunter Biden thing, and the Biden sexual thing you raise, to me are just attempts by the Trump circle to deflect attention from his own personal egregious behaviors. Trump trumps all. Just remember that Democrat politicians are lying sacks of shit and most everything you know about Trump was told to you by Democrat politicians. |
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Post by TKennedy on Oct 25, 2020 9:23:39 GMT -5
The “accomplishments” of the current administration, tax breaks for the wealthy, deregulation, conservative judicial appointees, continued growth of the economy, some foreign policy wins, etc. have all happened in spite of Donald Trump not because of him.
They would have happened anyway with any competent Republican President and with much less angst.
What has happened because of Donald Trump is a legitimization of bullying, racist, sociopathic, and divisive behavior, and a delegitimization of science, civility, education, and respect for the diversity that has always defined America.
It is not his fault, he is no hypocrite, he owns who he is but what he is is a very sick sociopathic human being with a personality perfectly suited for creating hate, chaos, divisiveness, and a profound disregard for the truth, but not for leadership or unity. The pandemic has displayed those shortcomings in spades.
Joe Biden certainly has his faults as do we all but he has been through and survived the worst experiences life can throw at a person and survived. I think he is a complete and compassionate human being and stands in stark contrast to the cartoon now in the WH.
If the Republican Party had dumped the Donald and run any competent candidate I would have given them some serious consideration. I have tended to vote a conservative ticket during a large part of my life but perceiving the candidate as a decent human being is critical for me. I would have voted for John McCain in a heartbeat if Sara Palin wasn’t his running mate. As it stands now my vote for Joe was a no brainer, I never thought twice about it.
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 25, 2020 9:25:12 GMT -5
The accomplishments of the current administration, tax breaks for the wealthy, deregulation, conservative judicial appointees, continued growth of the economy, some foreign policy wins, etc. have all happened in spite of Donald Trump not because of him. They would have happened anyway with any competent Republican President and with much less angst. What has happened because of Donald Trump is a legitimization of bullying, racist, sociopathic, and divisive behavior, and a delegitimization of science, civility, education, and respect for the diversity that has always defined America. It is not his fault, he is no hypocrite, he owns who he is but what he is is a very sick sociopathic human being with a personality perfectly suited for creating hate, chaos, divisiveness, and a profound disregard for the truth, but not for leadership or unity. The pandemic has displayed those shortcomings in spades. Joe Biden certainly has his faults as do we all but he has been through and survived the worst experiences life can throw at a person and survived. I think he is a complete and compassionate human being and stands in stark contrast to the cartoon now in the WH. If the Republican Party had dumped the Donald and run any competent candidate I would have given them some serious consideration. I have tended to vote a conservative ticket during a large part of my life but perceiving the candidate as a decent human being is critical for me. I would have voted for John McCain in a heartbeat if Sara Palin wasn’t his running mate. As it stands now my vote for Joe was a no brainer, I never thought twice about it. I rest my case. |
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 25, 2020 9:38:01 GMT -5
They would have happened anyway with any competent Republican President and with much less angst. Then why didn't they? They've had decades to make it happen. |
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Post by Marshall on Oct 25, 2020 10:04:22 GMT -5
They would have happened anyway with any competent Republican President and with much less angst. Then why didn't they? They've had decades to make it happen. I would argue that Mitch McConnell is the architect of much of what the Rs have accomplished in the last 4 years. I very much hate the way he’s done things. But it’s been his brilliant maneuvering that has made it possible. |
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Post by Marshall on Oct 25, 2020 10:22:46 GMT -5
In fact, having Trump out there to take the brunt of liberal distain has probably allowed McC to do his business without receiving as much direct wrath.
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Post by aquaduct on Oct 25, 2020 10:25:32 GMT -5
In fact, having Trump out there to take the brunt of liberal distain has probably allowed McC to do his business without receiving as much direct wrath. So the overwrought BS about Trump really isn't true? Pick a target and stick with it. |
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Post by coachdoc on Oct 25, 2020 10:53:29 GMT -5
Well, that was nicely reasoned out, Michael. I definitely don't agree. But that's OK. I'll never be a 2A champion or NRA supporter. Much much more bad than good comes out of assault weapon ownership, and sleasy easy gun show purchases. Guns/weapons have been regularly regulated in this country for at least the last hundred years. I'm not against the 2A. It's the law. But I am against the loosey goosey (Lucy?) application of ownership rights. But that being said, I wouldn't waste much breath on the issue. But the whole Hunter Biden thing, and the Biden sexual thing you raise, to me are just attempts by the Trump circle to deflect attention from his own personal egregious behaviors. Trump trumps all. Just remember that Democrat politicians are lying sacks of shit and most everything you know about Trump was told to you by Democrat politicians. I am a Democrat. I am not a lying sack of shit. |
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Post by John B on Oct 25, 2020 11:00:27 GMT -5
Pointless to argue, Doc, or even politely disagree.
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 25, 2020 11:03:00 GMT -5
Just remember that Democrat politicians are lying sacks of shit and most everything you know about Trump was told to you by Democrat politicians. I am a Democrat. I am not a lying sack of shit. What part of "Democrat politicians" didn't you understand? |
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Post by coachdoc on Oct 25, 2020 11:05:47 GMT -5
Um, how The modifier Democrat changes the definition of politician.
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Post by brucemacneill on Oct 25, 2020 11:57:02 GMT -5
Um, how The modifier Democrat changes the definition of politician. Trump's not a politician which is one of the things I've learned to like about him. He's trying to tear down everything the Democrats tried to build since the '60s and restore the country to it's brilliant Constitutional roots. That's what I've wanted all these years. Democrats are against everything that allowed this country to be great. I hope he wins big because I don't know where we'll get another chance. If the Democrats win, we're toast. |
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Post by epaul on Oct 25, 2020 12:22:17 GMT -5
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