Post by fauxmaha on Nov 23, 2020 9:00:10 GMT -5
Didn't feel right continuing the discussion in Howard's thread. I apologize to Howard and everyone else for taking this particular tangent in his thread. I thought it was relevant, but in hindsight, I should have started a new thread in the first place. Continuing this discussion there would be disrespectful.
That is my problem. I cannot find the actual language, just the summary by prejudicial (semi) news sites. I suspect Governor Brown (who I do not have great affinity for, but who is doing a decent job in Oregon) did not take "to the airways to ask residents to call police on their neighbors if they suspect a gathering of more than 6 people." I suspect that was written to incite prejudice. So it goes.
David, respectfully, how hard did you look?
"Kate Brown Call Cops" pointed at Google will take you right to it.
www.kgw.com/article/news/politics/oregon-covid-freeze-call-police-neighbors-kate-brown/283-d25ae28a-f177-4b68-a5a6-882004da1862
Reporter: "I asked Governor Brown yes or no should Oregonians be calling the cops on their neighbors?"
Brown: “This is no different than what happens if there's a party down the street and it's keeping everyone awake,” Brown said in an interview Friday. “What do neighbors do [in that case]? They call law enforcement because it's too noisy. This is just like that. It's like a violation of a noise ordinance.”
Reporter: "So yes?"
Brown: "Yes, yes".
(I have to say your governor's pet phrase "common sense measures based on science" cracks me up. Science exists because common sense can't be trusted.)
What Clarke was pointing out is no different than a point I've made repeatedly: When you put coercive policies in place, no matter how well intended or well justified, at the end of the line those policies are enforced by men with guns. Eric Garner found that out the hard way. How many Oregonians will similarly find out the hard way?
So with the veracity of the quote confirmed, and the existence of the policy confirmed, let's go back to the hypothetical: You're a cop. Do you obey the order?
I brought this up because people were asking how could it be that the Nazis could do what they did?
I'm trying to make the point that "pack all those people into that train then force them into the gas chamber" is never the first thing that happens. Its what happens after after long sequence of much smaller moral violations, each one serving to erode the sensibilities and break down the moral conditioning of the culture.
It's easy to look at obviously immoral acts from history and say "I would never do that!" It is infinitely harder to look at less obviously immoral acts in the present and say "Even though refusing this will cost me my career and my family's security, I can't do it".
This subject makes me think of the great tradition of English law and liberty we inherited, and this quote from William Pitt:
"The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter"
David, respectfully, how hard did you look?
"Kate Brown Call Cops" pointed at Google will take you right to it.
www.kgw.com/article/news/politics/oregon-covid-freeze-call-police-neighbors-kate-brown/283-d25ae28a-f177-4b68-a5a6-882004da1862
Reporter: "I asked Governor Brown yes or no should Oregonians be calling the cops on their neighbors?"
Brown: “This is no different than what happens if there's a party down the street and it's keeping everyone awake,” Brown said in an interview Friday. “What do neighbors do [in that case]? They call law enforcement because it's too noisy. This is just like that. It's like a violation of a noise ordinance.”
Reporter: "So yes?"
Brown: "Yes, yes".
(I have to say your governor's pet phrase "common sense measures based on science" cracks me up. Science exists because common sense can't be trusted.)
What Clarke was pointing out is no different than a point I've made repeatedly: When you put coercive policies in place, no matter how well intended or well justified, at the end of the line those policies are enforced by men with guns. Eric Garner found that out the hard way. How many Oregonians will similarly find out the hard way?
So with the veracity of the quote confirmed, and the existence of the policy confirmed, let's go back to the hypothetical: You're a cop. Do you obey the order?
I brought this up because people were asking how could it be that the Nazis could do what they did?
I'm trying to make the point that "pack all those people into that train then force them into the gas chamber" is never the first thing that happens. Its what happens after after long sequence of much smaller moral violations, each one serving to erode the sensibilities and break down the moral conditioning of the culture.
It's easy to look at obviously immoral acts from history and say "I would never do that!" It is infinitely harder to look at less obviously immoral acts in the present and say "Even though refusing this will cost me my career and my family's security, I can't do it".
This subject makes me think of the great tradition of English law and liberty we inherited, and this quote from William Pitt:
"The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter"
