and another, need help and a title

[Deleted]

so, the subject says it all. need it to flow better. the bracketed parts are female vox, the unbracketed are male. can't think of a title for it, so any suggestions there would be great.

**************

Call a truce upon deaf helmet ears
(This will help us test your invention)
Falling with steel to cut short these years
(Take the long road to betray your intention)

Trace the lines to points of impact
(Drag the night through a saltpetre sunrise)
The footsteps that shake loose the day
(For cordite mornings to bring the same suprise)

So drag me up and kill me again
These masks make insects of men...

So drag me up and kill me again
These masks make insects of men...

Take a breath, coming in on the wind
(Green ghosts against the sand and wire)
Take a breath, watch the panic begin
(Drowning inbetween the dirt and the fire)

Stand to and reload the reception
(Suturing wounds with barbed wire stitches)
Three lines back to step up the deception
(Scars in cross-stitch form funeral ditches)

So drag me up and kill me again
These masks make insects of men...

So drag me up and kill me again
These masks make insects of men...

And we can flood these fields,
With sluice gates of abstraction,
We can flood these fields,
We can flood these fields...

Take a breath, coming in on the wind
Take a breath, watch the panic begin
To drag me up and kill me again
As these masks make insects of men...

And even alchemy can't save you now,
Can't save you from it's bastard child,
Alchemy can't save you now,
Alchemy can't save you now...

[Cornflake]

Connington, you have a talent with words and there are a lot of intriguing lines here. I've read it several times, though, and I don't have any real sense of what you're trying to get across. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like it if I heard it but it's opaque to me. Maybe I'm just dense today.

[Deleted]

it may be a bit opaque. buy, hey, thats why i'm looking for help. any suggestions?

[Deleted]

the song by the way is about a viking invasion. took place many moons ago in my city. but it's also about some other things, and i'd imagine that might take away from the original point.

[Marshall]

These Masks.


I'm still confused. (Intrigued, but confused.)

Some very interesting lyrical images; nice juicy phrases. But I'm not pulling them together into a clear cut idea I can cling to.

[Deleted]

ok. explanation is in order. first verse is about the monks who didn't want to fight. the tried to make peace, but were killed by the vikings.

in the second verse, tracing the lines means simply following the footsteps of those already dead, and the point of impact would be the battle.

drag me up and kill me again refers to the fact that it's not the first invasion of the country, and the masks, ie warpaint, make insects of men, in that they're easier to kill.

green ghosts in the third verse refers to more recent wars (in that the soldiers are as good as dead), but the drowning inbetween the dirt and the fire is a comparison of the viking invasion to the wars of nowadays. the breathe in bit is how i'd imagine it feels to stand on the edge of the battlefield in anticipation.

the next verse just means that it can't be justified.

the very last verse just means your craft skills can't save you from the weapons it has made.

hope that clears it up a bit. i'll be first to admit i forsake clarity for big words.

[davidhanners]

I will forward all of this with the proviso that the comments that follow are just the opinion of one hack, and can be taken or left as desired. The comments are definitely not meant as criticisms, because I don't have the right to criticize your songwriting. Songwriting is a very individual art, and what makes perfect sense to you may be incredibly obtuse to to me, and vice versa. But I can offer comments as a listener and/or reader of lyrics.

So, with that as prologue, here goes....

Even with the explanations, I'm not sure I'm getting the point of the song. For one thing, I think you're trying to communicate too many concepts. We've got a Viking invasion, dead monks, a battle, metaphorical insects, recent wars, etc.

Being obtuse in a song is perfectly ok; listen to "Cowgirl in the Sand" by Neil Young and you'll get an example of good obtuseness. Combining reality with obtuseness is more difficult, and that's one of the issues that trips me up with this song. You go to a lot of trouble and effort to paint some very strong metaphorical pictures, then you throw in some reality through words like "helmet" and "saltpetre" and "suturing" and "cordite." Everytime you start painting some metaphor, I feel it gets derailed by getting jolted back to reality with these words. I want to the song to either stay obtuse or to be precise, but not both at the same time.

I also think the back-and-forth between the male and female voice is going to be even more off-putting, but that's just me.

Also, I don't mean to be critical or judgmental, but the phrase "sluice gates of abstraction" just should never, ever be used in a song. That phrase is just too much for the listener to think about. When you make the listener think too much, you lose him or her.

I'm wanting the song to take a simple approach to your story. Start with the Viking invasion, and the decision by the monks to die rather than fight. Expand upon that. I think if you keep the story simple -- songwriting is about storytelling, after all -- then you'll be better off. I really like the chorus. As for the end of the song, I'm not sure who the "bastard child" is, and by the end of the song, that's something I should know.

All that said, reality and obtuseness can be co-exist in a song, but the songwriter who can pull it off is rare. For an example of someone who does it very well, check out virtually anything written by Al Stewart. For example, "On the Border" is probably one of the prettiest songs ever written about gun-running during the Spanish Civil War, although there are only two lines in the whole song ("...Smuggling guns and arms across the Spanish border" and "...Turns the rifles into silver on the border") that talk about gun-running. Still, it tells the story, and quite nicely.

I think you've got the start of a very powerful song here, and I hate to see that power diluted by things that will trip up a listener.

[Deleted]

no need for the prologue. i'm considering scrapping this song, or at least putting it away for a while. i'm having problems with the music too, so it probably makes sense to drop it.

losing my hair trying to get from a g chord to a, well, i don't know the chord, some kind of c chord. anyway, thanks again for your opinion, muchly appreciated.

[davidhanners]

I don't know that there's a need to scrap the song, just re-write it or edit it. I once read an interview with Tim O'Brien in which he said he'd write a song and then edit it by one-fourth or more, and I think that is generally a good rule for songwriters to keep in mind. We need to edit ourselves mercilessly. (Just think of yourself as one of those Vikings, and your song as one of those monks....)

Make every word, every phrase, every line, fight for its right to be in that song. While songwriting is storytelling, just remember that you don't have to tell every little subtlety or nuance in the song.

From a lyrical standpoint, you've got plenty in this tune to work with. But to be a songwriter, you've also got to be an editor. You've done the first half of your job, now go do the second half....

[Deleted]

i have taken the advice of sir flake, sir marshall and sir hanners and edited this one mercilessly. so here it is, in simpler form...............

ps, i don't think this is anywhere near as good as the original. and it still needs a title.

************

I watch the sky turning black
And know the time is fast approaching
My clan they all look to me
I turn away, I face the ocean
In the dark I see a fleet of long-ships on the horizon
Again the Vikings come, to this land they are a poison

Archers ready your bows, swordsmen ready your blades
Gods be with us this night, as we stop these barbarian raids
Their boats now pulled to shore
Scrawny men pour forth from the hull
Their faces look ailing and drawn
But their minds are bent on the cull

On they come, these viking raiders, pale and grey
With withered bodies and swords to slay
Charging forth, from filthy ships, towards our line
But we are butchers and they are our swine

Be ready men, they fast approach, the time is here
Stand firm at your line and show no fear
From the north, this army comes, to raid our lands
But instead tonight they will die by Gaelic hands

I give the call to attack, and we charge towards the Vikings
Arrows scream overhead, and begin this night of killing
I watch as the armies collide, flesh and bone gets torn asunder
So many of my warriors die, as they stop viking plunder

In the distance I see, their leader so wretched and vile
Leading his men with pride, I see his weakness and I smile
Caught up in his stupor of greed, I slice his head from his neck
His cowardly men run away, victory is ours this day

[Cornflake]

Connington, contrary to your view, I think that as a song it's much better than your first version. This time I have a good idea of what is going on and I got caught up in what you were relating. That beats the heck out of befuddlement.

I was pretty much with you until the last verse. You see the opposing leader from a distance and suddenly you're beheading him. Must be a hell of a long sword. I can't say it would be a terribly satisfying ending to the song even if you dealt with that difficulty.

I think it's better but I find myself wondering: why are you telling this story? Why are we supposed to be moved by the lyric or care about the outcome? There's no resolution that gives me any answer. I identified with your narrator and felt what I guessed would have been his anxiety as events unfolded. That was good. But it all built towards a climax or payoff or something that never quite came. I don't mean that I want to hear a "moral of the story"...but I need something by way of resolution that keeps resonating with me, or the song won't really deliver.

For the 18th time, I hope you're not irritated by the criticism. Your efforts are worth criticizing.

[Deleted]

not irritated at all. i'll re edit the last verse. thanks for the crits.