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Post by Rob Hanesworth on Aug 21, 2021 11:52:38 GMT -5
My late wife's grandmother hounded her husband to put a lock on the front door. He finally relented but drove a nail into the outside door frame and hung a key on it. His feeling was that that was enough to tell honest people to keep out while avoiding damage from dishonest people who were determined to get in.
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Post by epaul on Aug 21, 2021 13:14:40 GMT -5
By that twisted metric, Jan 6 was 97 percent peaceful. The metric isn't twisted. Jan. 6 was 97 percent peaceful. The bunch that stormed Congressional building was less than 3% of the crowd (it was less than 1%). I have never heard a suggestion to the contrary. And of the mob that busted in, it was, as it was with the BLM vandalizers, a mix of dedicated bad actors with dumbass idiots caught up spirit of the moment... the always lurking spirit of chaos (Loki, Dionysus, Fred the Barbarian).
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Post by Russell Letson on Aug 21, 2021 14:46:16 GMT -5
Fred has always resented that "barbarian" label. Sure, he rides a horse and wears wolf-pelt skivvies, but he learned to read and write and had enough arithmetic to divide loot pretty fairly. For him it's as much about Sticking It To The Man as anything else (unless he can find an unguarded Woman). And Fred is anything but political, no matter what slogans his signage might carry. After all, he face-paints for every home-team game, and there ain't no politics in polo, right, whether it's played with the head of a goat or that of the loser of the last match. He does draw the line at arson, though if one of his buddies gets carried away--well, you gotta let boys be bois.
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Post by robjh22 on Aug 21, 2021 15:35:20 GMT -5
By that twisted metric, Jan 6 was 97 percent peaceful. The metric isn't twisted. Jan. 6 was 97 percent peaceful. The bunch that stormed Congressional building was less than 3% of the crowd (it was less than 1%). I have never heard a suggestion to the contrary. And of the mob that busted in, it was, as it was with the BLM vandalizers, a mix of dedicated bad actors with dumbass idiots caught up spirit of the moment... the always lurking spirit of chaos (Loki, Dionysus, Fred the Barbarian). The right paints black lives matter with as broad a brush as the left paints the Jan. 6 incident. The cable news networks exaggerate one or the other depending on whom the advertisers say is tuning in to their particular channel. We seem to be getting angrier and angrier. The gun stores have a hard time keeping ammunition in stock. Is there any way out of this soft civil war? Or is it that what I am seeing and hearing is, if eternal, confined to small corners of a handful of large cities? My town is about 250,000, and all that's going on here, from what I can see, is brisk commerce, high school football, gardening, masking (my zip code is about 63% vaccinated), and church/mosque/temple.
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Post by epaul on Aug 21, 2021 15:46:08 GMT -5
One of my towns is 420 people, the other is darn near 50,000... so, by dint of personal experience, I have the gamut of the American urban experience covered, from really large to really small... and I still don't have an answer to that question.
(I do know my large city has more people in it than my small town, that one I got covered)
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Post by robjh22 on Aug 21, 2021 16:02:55 GMT -5
One of my towns is 420 people, the other is darn near 50,000... so, by dint of personal experience, I have the gamut of the American urban experience covered, from really large to really small... and I still don't have an answer to that question. (I do know my large city has more people in it than my small town, that one I got covered) I'd be interested in knowing the smallest town in the USA that ever had a riot. And the reason for the riot. And the temperature at the time. We had a bad one in Colfax, during Reconstruction, near my hometown in Louisiana.
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Post by Cornflake on Aug 21, 2021 17:20:44 GMT -5
"The right paints black lives matter with as broad a brush as the left paints the Jan. 6 incident. The cable news networks exaggerate one or the other depending on whom the advertisers say is tuning in to their particular channel. We seem to be getting angrier and angrier. The gun stores have a hard time keeping ammunition in stock. Is there any way out of this soft civil war?
"Or is it that what I am seeing and hearing is, if eternal, confined to small corners of a handful of large cities? My town is about 250,000, and all that's going on here, from what I can see, is brisk commerce, high school football, gardening, masking (my zip code is about 63% vaccinated), and church/mosque/temple."
I have to say that the ONLY equivalence I see between the marches and January 6th is that the people who broke the law should be prosecuted.
I'm not sure what you think you're seeing or hearing but I think the news tends to exaggerate the significance of fringe voices. In some cases it's probably because people saying extreme things are more newsworthy than people expressing commonly held views. In other cases it's entirely intentional and done for partisan advantage.
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Post by gbacklin on Aug 21, 2021 18:13:38 GMT -5
By that twisted metric, Jan 6 was 97 percent peaceful. The metric isn't twisted. Jan. 6 was 97 percent peaceful. The bunch that stormed Congressional building was less than 3% of the crowd (it was less than 1%). I have never heard a suggestion to the contrary. And of the mob that busted in, it was, as it was with the BLM vandalizers, a mix of dedicated bad actors with dumbass idiots caught up spirit of the moment... the always lurking spirit of chaos (Loki, Dionysus, Fred the Barbarian).
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 21, 2021 18:23:33 GMT -5
By that twisted metric, Jan 6 was 97 percent peaceful. The metric isn't twisted. Jan. 6 was 97 percent peaceful. The bunch that stormed Congressional building was less than 3% of the crowd (it was less than 1%). I have never heard a suggestion to the contrary. And of the mob that busted in, it was, as it was with the BLM vandalizers, a mix of dedicated bad actors with dumbass idiots caught up spirit of the moment... the always lurking spirit of chaos (Loki, Dionysus, Fred the Barbarian). You have to wonder why are there some 550 people still locked up on essentially misdemeanors until maybe at least the middle of 2022 according to the DOJ over January 6. I wonder how many are locked up for Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, and other "Summer of Love" fests.
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Post by millring on Aug 21, 2021 19:00:11 GMT -5
I wonder how many are locked up for Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, and other "Summer of Love" fests. What? ... for just a little bit of harmless property damage?
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Post by Marshall on Aug 21, 2021 20:00:15 GMT -5
There were a lot of arrests in Chicago. They were using security videos to identify people.
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Post by John B on Aug 21, 2021 20:21:09 GMT -5
I wonder how many are locked up for Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, and other "Summer of Love" fests. What? ... for just a little bit of harmless property damage? Calling something "property damage" (not "harmless property damage") rather than "the destruction of at least five (and counting) American cities" (hyperbole, I learned earlier) does not negate the fact that crimes were committed, people committed those crimes, and the people that committed those crimes should be arrested, prosecuted and if found guilty punished to the full extent of the law. On January 6th, a bunch of people protested. As said back in January, a minority of those people attacked the foundations of our democracy, and should be prosecuted and if found guilty punished to the full extent of the law.
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Post by aquaduct on Aug 21, 2021 20:54:49 GMT -5
What? ... for just a little bit of harmless property damage? Calling something "property damage" (not "harmless property damage") rather than "the destruction of at least five (and counting) American cities" (hyperbole, I learned earlier) does not negate the fact that crimes were committed, people committed those crimes, and the people that committed those crimes should be arrested, prosecuted and if found guilty punished to the full extent of the law. On January 6th, a bunch of people protested. As said back in January, a minority of those people attacked the foundations of our democracy, and should be prosecuted and if found guilty punished to the full extent of the law. It's August. Most, if not all, of the people held for January 6 are accused of misdemeanors. I think one guy pled out, for a misdemeanor like trespassing (despite the doors being openned and everyone being politely invited in by police). A midemeanor. Not a real convincing way to start if you think dozens of murderers were responsible for January 6. Pretty much solitary confinement. 14-16,000 hours of video taken that day from every concievable angle of the "horrendous" riot have not been released to the defense or anybody else. And may never be released. The guy who shot an unarmed Ashli Babbett (the only person to die in the "riots") in the throat and killed her has never been formally identified (despite being fairly credibly identified from the small portions of video that has come out). And Capitol Police standards don't require him to be named, unlike any other police force in the country. Still, internal affairs has declared it a clean kill. About 550 people. And I think the damages from that "horribly violent" riot were something like $50,000. Basically a few broken windows. In 4 hours. So, how many were arrested for the "Summer of Love"? How many were actually convicted? How many are still incarcerated? And what were the cumulative damages? Across all the riots in all the places. Anybody bothered to find out? I'm guessing no.
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Post by james on Aug 21, 2021 22:20:07 GMT -5
Where does the Jan 6th $50,000 damage figure come from? Do you have a similarly ridiculous figure for medical expenses for the hospitalised police officers?
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Post by millring on Aug 22, 2021 5:49:29 GMT -5
Jan 6 may fit the description of "insurrection", but it was ridiculously, pitifully carrying a butter knife to a nuclear war.... when what it actually was was a protest against the actual successful insurrection we all witnessed the year before.
Jan 6 had no hope of being anything more than a riot. It had no plan for a takeover. No military might, no political leadership, no infrastructure with which to displace the new American government they were protesting.
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Post by brucemacneill on Aug 22, 2021 5:51:30 GMT -5
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Post by james on Aug 22, 2021 8:27:01 GMT -5
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Post by John B on Aug 22, 2021 8:51:28 GMT -5
Jan 6 may fit the description of "insurrection", but it was ridiculously, pitifully carrying a butter knife to a nuclear war.... when what it actually was was a protest against the actual successful insurrection we all witnessed the year before. Jan 6 had no hope of being anything more than a riot. It had no plan for a takeover. No military might, no political leadership, no infrastructure with which to displace the new American government they were protesting. "actual successful insurrection" was what (hyperbole)? So committing crimes is OK if you wouldn't have been able to take over the country (no matter how much damage you could have done)?
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Post by millring on Aug 22, 2021 13:47:09 GMT -5
So committing crimes is OK if you wouldn't have been able to take over the country (no matter how much damage you could have done)? No.
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