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Post by theevan on Dec 22, 2021 8:06:01 GMT -5
It seems this will be the next Big Issue for this administration and their party.
Somehow, according to President Biden, requiring a picture ID is "an unfolding assault on liberty, an assault on who we are...as Americans. For, make no mistake, bullies and merchants of fear and peddlers of lies are threatening the very foundation of our country."
Mmmm-kay.
Facts: Of the 47 countries in Europe, 46 require government-issued IDs to vote. The UK is the outlier, though many localities require a photo ID.
35 of the 47 do not allow don't allow absentee voting for citizens living in the country. England and France used to have absentee voting similar to ours but quit mailing them in 2004. Now voters must pick them up & show an ID. France used to as well but changed that in 1975 after a massive vote-buying scheme was uncovered.
On the matter of vote suppression, note that after Mexico instituted reforms tightening requirements that participation rose from 59% to 68%. Turns out that voters are more likely to participate when they have confidence in the system. Who'da thunk it?
So, what's behind wanting to make our vote a free-for-all AND for the Feds to seize the vote from state control?
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The Vote
Dec 22, 2021 8:09:50 GMT -5
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Post by millring on Dec 22, 2021 8:09:50 GMT -5
Brian Williams calls it "Institutionalism" and he's all for it. He's even threatened to hold his breath and turn blue if he and it don't get its way.
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 22, 2021 8:49:12 GMT -5
It's pretty easy to understand. Now that they've got the President, House (barely), and Senate (barely) they want to institutionalize the 2020 election fraud so they never lose again.
It's also why they want to expand the Supreme Court.
Just that simple.
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The Vote
Dec 22, 2021 8:56:28 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2021 8:56:28 GMT -5
If the GOP were smart, they’d use some of the PAC millions they are sitting on and do the most MASSIVE and public “Let’s give you a ride to the photo ID place” drive in every backwater and rural enclave all over the states.
Imagine the good will that would generate.
Yeah, I’m not sure they could use PAC money for that, but there’s enough cash out there to make it viable.
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Post by Cosmic Wonder on Dec 22, 2021 9:03:51 GMT -5
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 22, 2021 9:03:57 GMT -5
If the GOP were smart, they’d use some of the PAC millions they are sitting on and do the most MASSIVE and public “Let’s give you a ride to the photo ID place” drive in every backwater and rural enclave all over the states. Imagine the good will that would generate. Yeah, I’m not sure they could use PAC money for that, but there’s enough cash out there to make it viable. Even that can't fight open voter fraud.
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Post by TKennedy on Dec 22, 2021 9:48:33 GMT -5
Most folks probably won’t take the time to listen to this but it is a fascinating history of voting in America. There is always room for improvement and no matter how perfect, sore losers will probably always claim corruption but we HAVE come a long way!! Remember it was not that long ago that women could not vote and it took a prolonged and brutal fight against widespread resistance, threats, and intimidation to achieve women’s suffrage. www.npr.org/2020/10/02/919532786/how-we-voteWe do have one person here that actually has some qualifications to speak to the topic from personal experience. Marshall?
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The Vote
Dec 22, 2021 10:28:24 GMT -5
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 22, 2021 10:28:24 GMT -5
I don't think anyone's questioning Chicago. Other than their taste in politicians anyways.
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Post by dradtke on Dec 22, 2021 10:55:13 GMT -5
If the GOP were smart, they’d use some of the PAC millions they are sitting on and do the most MASSIVE and public “Let’s give you a ride to the photo ID place” drive in every backwater and rural enclave all over the states. Imagine the good will that would generate. This.
It's not the simple fact of an ID that is the issue, it's the type and availability of ID allowed that is the problem. But sure, go ahead and grab onto the word "ID" and ridicule the very real problems of the type of ID allowed.
One example, in Texas, you can use your handgun license as ID to vote, but not your college ID - because a Texas gun owner is likely to vote Republican while a college student is likely to vote Democratic, making it just a little bit harder for a Democrat to vote. That's the issue, not the buzzword ID.
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The Vote
Dec 22, 2021 10:56:42 GMT -5
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epaul likes this
Post by Marshall on Dec 22, 2021 10:56:42 GMT -5
Huh? What? Don’t bother me. I’m still licking my wounds from the football game that was stolen from us.
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Post by epaul on Dec 22, 2021 11:25:13 GMT -5
Pair a national ID card requirement for voting with an expanded voting period (three days?) and the right to take a personal day off work for voting purposes.
Democrats get two ID cards for voting, Republicans have to share one.
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Post by james on Dec 22, 2021 11:25:24 GMT -5
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The Vote
Dec 22, 2021 11:56:28 GMT -5
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 22, 2021 11:56:28 GMT -5
If the GOP were smart, they’d use some of the PAC millions they are sitting on and do the most MASSIVE and public “Let’s give you a ride to the photo ID place” drive in every backwater and rural enclave all over the states. Imagine the good will that would generate. This. It's not the simple fact of an ID that is the issue, it's the type and availability of ID allowed that is the problem. But sure, go ahead and grab onto the word "ID" and ridicule the very real problems of the type of ID allowed. One example, in Texas, you can use your handgun license as ID to vote, but not your college ID - because a Texas gun owner is likely to vote Republican while a college student is likely to vote Democratic, making it just a little bit harder for a Democrat to vote. That's the issue, not the buzzword ID. Is a college ID issued by a state office Constitutionally authorized to manage elections? Is a gun license? Are there any other properly issued IDs available? Can a student that is a resident of another state get an absentee ballot from the state of their residence to allow them to vote properly? That's probably why Texas has minimal problems with voter fraud.
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Post by james on Dec 22, 2021 12:08:19 GMT -5
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Post by Russell Letson on Dec 22, 2021 12:14:15 GMT -5
Just about every study not conducted by a talk-radio host has found that pretty much the entire country "has minimal problems with voter fraud." Certainly Minnesota seems to work OK--where it's possible to register at the polling place on election day and proof of residence can be a utility bill (with date, name, and address) or a registered-voter neighbor vouching for you. www.sos.state.mn.us/elections-voting/register-to-vote/register-on-election-day/One can argue that there's nothing wrong in principle with requiring documentation of eligibility (citizenship, residency, age), any more than there might have been, a century and more ago, requiring proof of literacy. But in practice, such requirements have been and continue to be used to exclude classes of voters. And given the implementation of various voter-ID schemes, it's hard to accept the arguments of their devisers as good-faith arguments. BTW: Put "voter id laws alec" into a Google search.
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Post by aquaduct on Dec 22, 2021 13:33:14 GMT -5
The logical fraud of moving the specific to the general means nothing. The detailed allegations involved about 6 localities (Minnesota is not one of them) and they have never been adjudicated, just refused based on mostly technical grounds.
Nationwide fraud could still be possible but the question has been rendered moot.
And besides, Brandon, er I mean Biden has proven to be exactly what y'all paid for, incompetent as hell. I mean, whoever thought that bugging out of Afghanistan by pulling the guys with guns out first was a good thing?
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Post by theevan on Dec 22, 2021 14:28:54 GMT -5
Most folks probably won’t take the time to listen to this but it is a fascinating history of voting in America. There is always room for improvement and no matter how perfect, sore losers will probably always claim corruption but we HAVE come a long way!! Remember it was not that long ago that women could not vote and it took a prolonged and brutal fight against widespread resistance, threats, and intimidation to achieve women’s suffrage. www.npr.org/2020/10/02/919532786/how-we-voteWe do have one person here that actually has some qualifications to speak to the topic from personal experience. Marshall? I listened. Nice production values and an interesting mix of history and op-ed.
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Post by dradtke on Dec 22, 2021 14:36:50 GMT -5
This. It's not the simple fact of an ID that is the issue, it's the type and availability of ID allowed that is the problem. But sure, go ahead and grab onto the word "ID" and ridicule the very real problems of the type of ID allowed. One example, in Texas, you can use your handgun license as ID to vote, but not your college ID - because a Texas gun owner is likely to vote Republican while a college student is likely to vote Democratic, making it just a little bit harder for a Democrat to vote. That's the issue, not the buzzword ID. Is a college ID issued by a state office Constitutionally authorized to manage elections? Is a gun license? Are there any other properly issued IDs available? Can a student that is a resident of another state get an absentee ballot from the state of their residence to allow them to vote properly? That's probably why Texas has minimal problems with voter fraud. All states have minimal problems with voter fraud.
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The Vote
Dec 22, 2021 14:39:29 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by aquaduct on Dec 22, 2021 14:39:29 GMT -5
Is a college ID issued by a state office Constitutionally authorized to manage elections? Is a gun license? Are there any other properly issued IDs available? Can a student that is a resident of another state get an absentee ballot from the state of their residence to allow them to vote properly? That's probably why Texas has minimal problems with voter fraud. All states have minimal problems with voter fraud. I thought Russell just said they don't. Which is it?
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Post by Russell Letson on Dec 22, 2021 14:52:36 GMT -5
Russell wrote, "Just about every study not conducted by a talk-radio host has found that pretty much the entire country "has minimal problems with voter fraud.'"
David wrote, "All states have minimal problems with voter fraud."
These two statements strike me as amounting to the same thing, so the answer to "which is it" would be "both of them."
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